re: pre abortion ultrasounds?

DawnRenee wrote:

Black Barbie wrote:

DawnRenee wrote:


Dayum Girl! You're on top of it tonight!! Are we related?! Sheesh! Great minds think alike, I always say. ;) Another great answer and a total mirror reflection of what mine would have been! Yay!  

LOL. UH, YEAH, we're related.. you don't remember me from the family reunion? I'm offended.

I do I do!! We were the ones at the table still scarfing down food after everyone else was already done! ;)


Raven, I really need to ask you this, Now please don't get offend because I'm really just trying to understand.
Your posts drip with saddness (which is completely undertsandable), but it also drips with resentment to women who wouldn't want to be forced to have an U/S before they abort their pregnancy. Yes, You know how you felt and feel now about the decision that you've made, but it seems like you're questioning their choices even when the situation isn't always the same. Sometimes adoption isn't always the right answer, or going ahead and having the baby when you know you have a dire situation. Yes, You're sad about having an abortion when you were 17, but it was YOUR choice to, for Whatever reasons you had at the time and you now know you'd never do it again and regret it deeply. I get it. But what I don't get is how you can question over and over about other womens choices, Because you've been there before!


Geesh, I don't even know if I made any sense. I had a late night.  

I am not questioning their choices. I am questioning HOW they come to that choice.

I know quite a few ladies (personally and those I've "met" online) who feel the same way I do about the decisions they made about their abortions. I am not saying abortions should be illegal, but I don't know that they should be legal either.

Also, I won't delve into my personal life when I was 17..but my situation was a lot different than what's been mentioned here. I've already seen how some posters on this thread are trying to pick apart every post made.

I am just a firm believer that it is the womans choice to go through with it or not.

And like i said, there are other ways to educate women about pregnancy and abortion. For instance: They should be COMPLETELY aware of how the procedure is done, and how far the baby is developed at the time. THey should undergo counseling sessions where they are offered different options, and undergo psychiatric testing to make sure they are mentally fit and aware of the decision they are making. And if there is any doubt, there should be plenty of time to change their minds.

And if a women truly doesn't want to procede with the pregnancy, it would be really hard to have to see an ultrasound.

I don't think it is about wether abortion is right or wrong, or the right decision for everyone. But it should always be the womens choice.

I think abortions should be legal, but they need to up the restirctions a little bit. In Arkansas you barely have to do anything other than drive to the clinic. ANd I think that leads to a lot of people making the wrong choice becasue they panic.

Education is the answer here, not force.

I really havn't meant to offend anyone in this post, that is just my opinion.

Flamingomom wrote:
Education is the answer here, not force.

You hit that nail on the head.

Flamingomom wrote: I am just a firm believer that it is the womans choice to go through with it or not.

And like i said, there are other ways to educate women about pregnancy and abortion. For instance: They should be COMPLETELY aware of how the procedure is done, and how far the baby is developed at the time. THey should undergo counseling sessions where they are offered different options, and undergo psychiatric testing to make sure they are mentally fit and aware of the decision they are making. And if there is any doubt, there should be plenty of time to change their minds.

And if a women truly doesn't want to procede with the pregnancy, it would be really hard to have to see an ultrasound.

I don't think it is about wether abortion is right or wrong, or the right decision for everyone. But it should always be the womens choice.

I think abortions should be legal, but they need to up the restirctions a little bit. In Arkansas you barely have to do anything other than drive to the clinic. ANd I think that leads to a lot of people making the wrong choice becasue they panic.

Education is the answer here, not force.

I really havn't meant to offend anyone in this post, that is just my opinion.

I agree with you. Well said!!!!


PS: Raven, we're in Debate and Discuss -- posts made to threads in here usually do get picked apart like it's surgery!

im for it. people cant hide from the truth.

ravensroost wrote:

DawnRenee wrote:

Black Barbie wrote:

DawnRenee wrote:


Dayum Girl! You're on top of it tonight!! Are we related?! Sheesh! Great minds think alike, I always say. ;) Another great answer and a total mirror reflection of what mine would have been! Yay!  

LOL. UH, YEAH, we're related.. you don't remember me from the family reunion? I'm offended.

I do I do!! We were the ones at the table still scarfing down food after everyone else was already done! ;)


Raven, I really need to ask you this, Now please don't get offend because I'm really just trying to understand.
Your posts drip with saddness (which is completely undertsandable), but it also drips with resentment to women who wouldn't want to be forced to have an U/S before they abort their pregnancy. Yes, You know how you felt and feel now about the decision that you've made, but it seems like you're questioning their choices even when the situation isn't always the same. Sometimes adoption isn't always the right answer, or going ahead and having the baby when you know you have a dire situation. Yes, You're sad about having an abortion when you were 17, but it was YOUR choice to, for Whatever reasons you had at the time and you now know you'd never do it again and regret it deeply. I get it. But what I don't get is how you can question over and over about other womens choices, Because you've been there before!


Geesh, I don't even know if I made any sense. I had a late night.  

I am not questioning their choices. I am questioning HOW they come to that choice.

I know quite a few ladies (personally and those I've "met" online) who feel the same way I do about the decisions they made about their abortions. I am not saying abortions should be illegal, but I don't know that they should be legal either.

Also, I won't delve into my personal life when I was 17..but my situation was a lot different than what's been mentioned here. I've already seen how some posters on this thread are trying to pick apart every post made.

Everyone has their reasons and they shouldn't have to explain them to anyone. Questioning HOW they come to that choice is STILL questioning their choice regardless. Abortion is always going to be a touchy subject, whether you believe in it or not. But people shouldn't condem others for their choices to get one, especially when they've been through it themselves, for whatever reason. (That wasn't directed at you personally, Raven. I am speaking in general.)
And I agree with Black Barbie, this is the debate and discuss section and when we see posts that seem alittle off they will be picked apart.

ravensroost wrote:

DawnRenee wrote:

Black Barbie wrote:

DawnRenee wrote:


Dayum Girl! You're on top of it tonight!! Are we related?! Sheesh! Great minds think alike, I always say. ;) Another great answer and a total mirror reflection of what mine would have been! Yay!  

LOL. UH, YEAH, we're related.. you don't remember me from the family reunion? I'm offended.

I do I do!! We were the ones at the table still scarfing down food after everyone else was already done! ;)


Raven, I really need to ask you this, Now please don't get offend because I'm really just trying to understand.
Your posts drip with saddness (which is completely undertsandable), but it also drips with resentment to women who wouldn't want to be forced to have an U/S before they abort their pregnancy. Yes, You know how you felt and feel now about the decision that you've made, but it seems like you're questioning their choices even when the situation isn't always the same. Sometimes adoption isn't always the right answer, or going ahead and having the baby when you know you have a dire situation. Yes, You're sad about having an abortion when you were 17, but it was YOUR choice to, for Whatever reasons you had at the time and you now know you'd never do it again and regret it deeply. I get it. But what I don't get is how you can question over and over about other womens choices, Because you've been there before!


Geesh, I don't even know if I made any sense. I had a late night.  

I am not questioning their choices. I am questioning HOW they come to that choice.

I know quite a few ladies (personally and those I've "met" online) who feel the same way I do about the decisions they made about their abortions. I am not saying abortions should be illegal, but I don't know that they should be legal either.

Also, I won't delve into my personal life when I was 17..but my situation was a lot different than what's been mentioned here. I've already seen how some posters on this thread are trying to pick apart every post made.

How they come to the decision to have an abortion I believe is no ones business, just like when you go grocery shopping and you pick Skippy peanut butter over Jiffy. I dont care what peanut butter you eat or buy and I certainly dont care how you came to that decision.

starla wrote:

ravensroost wrote:

DawnRenee wrote:

Black Barbie wrote:

DawnRenee wrote:


Dayum Girl! You're on top of it tonight!! Are we related?! Sheesh! Great minds think alike, I always say. ;) Another great answer and a total mirror reflection of what mine would have been! Yay!  

LOL. UH, YEAH, we're related.. you don't remember me from the family reunion? I'm offended.

I do I do!! We were the ones at the table still scarfing down food after everyone else was already done! ;)


Raven, I really need to ask you this, Now please don't get offend because I'm really just trying to understand.
Your posts drip with saddness (which is completely undertsandable), but it also drips with resentment to women who wouldn't want to be forced to have an U/S before they abort their pregnancy. Yes, You know how you felt and feel now about the decision that you've made, but it seems like you're questioning their choices even when the situation isn't always the same. Sometimes adoption isn't always the right answer, or going ahead and having the baby when you know you have a dire situation. Yes, You're sad about having an abortion when you were 17, but it was YOUR choice to, for Whatever reasons you had at the time and you now know you'd never do it again and regret it deeply. I get it. But what I don't get is how you can question over and over about other womens choices, Because you've been there before!


Geesh, I don't even know if I made any sense. I had a late night.  

I am not questioning their choices. I am questioning HOW they come to that choice.

I know quite a few ladies (personally and those I've "met" online) who feel the same way I do about the decisions they made about their abortions. I am not saying abortions should be illegal, but I don't know that they should be legal either.

Also, I won't delve into my personal life when I was 17..but my situation was a lot different than what's been mentioned here. I've already seen how some posters on this thread are trying to pick apart every post made.

How they come to the decision to have an abortion I believe is no ones business, just like when you go grocery shopping and you pick Skippy peanut butter over Jiffy. I dont care what peanut butter you eat or buy and I certainly dont care how you came to that decision.

I agree with you Starla, different situations, different reasons and when it comes down to it, it's nobody's business. You tell your reason, and people will really start to judge. Then you really start to hate yourself. No need for that. There is no right or wrong when it comes to choices b/c the choice you make is the choice you need to continue to live. It's the choice that guides you down "your" path in life and makes you the person you are. It's your journey and nobody elses!!

mommatojulia wrote: im for it. people cant hide from the truth.

Who's to say not wanting to look at the sonogram picture is hiding from the truth? Who's to say that every woman isn't educated enough in knowing that yes... there is a living baby growing inside of her? What if in making her decision to terminate the pregnancy she's already dealt with "the truth" long and hard, which is what brought her to her decision? What difference is forcing someone to look at their baby on a screen going to make except more guilt, more depression in the long run when she has already made up her mind? Is a mental picture embedded in the brain really necessary? And that's all it would be, guilt tripping a woman into not going through with the surgery, when she obviously has her own reasons to be there in the first place. Nobody should be FORCED into anything.

Lets say she made up her mind to not go through with the pregnancy because she wasn't ready in any way... and simply because she was forced into looking at the ultrasound she felt too "guilty" .... so after all is said and done, you who are all "for it," you "win" -- where does that leave everything? A woman then has a child out of guilt and force when she knew she wasn't ready for it in the first place? That makes no sense, what is to be accomplished by forcing anyone to do this?

And lets not even get into rape victims.... as if the female isn't most likely traumatized by the rape already -- lets FORCE her to see her unborn child on a monitor before she aborts it. Sounds effective!!!!! Just wondering, who pays for the mental health counseling sessions afterward?

DawnRenee wrote: Everyone has their reasons and they shouldn't have to explain them to anyone. Questioning HOW they come to that choice is STILL questioning their choice regardless. Abortion is always going to be a touchy subject, whether you believe in it or not. But people shouldn't condem others for their choices to get one, especially when they've been through it themselves, for whatever reason. (That wasn't directed at you personally, Raven. I am speaking in general.)
And I agree with Black Barbie, this is the debate and discuss section and when we see posts that seem alittle off they will be picked apart.

starla wrote: How they come to the decision to have an abortion I believe is no ones business, just like when you go grocery shopping and you pick Skippy peanut butter over Jiffy. I dont care what peanut butter you eat or buy and I certainly dont care how you came to that decision.

EXACTLY, both of you... lol.

Black Barbie wrote:

mommatojulia wrote: im for it. people cant hide from the truth.

Who's to say not wanting to look at the sonogram picture is hiding from the truth? Who's to say that every woman isn't educated enough in knowing that yes... there is a living baby growing inside of her? What if in making her decision to terminate the pregnancy she's already dealt with "the truth" long and hard, which is what brought her to her decision? What difference is forcing someone to look at their baby on a screen going to make except more guilt, more depression in the long run when she has already made up her mind? Is a mental picture embedded in the brain really necessary? And that's all it would be, guilt tripping a woman into not going through with the surgery, when she obviously has her own reasons to be there in the first place. Nobody should be FORCED into anything.

Lets say she made up her mind to not go through with the pregnancy because she wasn't ready in any way... and simply because she was forced into looking at the ultrasound she felt too "guilty" .... so after all is said and done, you who are all "for it," you "win" -- where does that leave everything? A woman then has a child out of guilt and force when she knew she wasn't ready for it in the first place? That makes no sense, what is to be accomplished by forcing anyone to do this?

And lets not even get into rape victims.... as if the female isn't most likely traumatized by the rape already -- lets FORCE her to see her unborn child on a monitor before she aborts it. Sounds effective!!!!! Just wondering, who pays for the mental health counseling sessions afterward?

Very well put! Agreed!

Black Barbie wrote:

mommatojulia wrote: im for it. people cant hide from the truth.

Who's to say not wanting to look at the sonogram picture is hiding from the truth? Who's to say that every woman isn't educated enough in knowing that yes... there is a living baby growing inside of her? What if in making her decision to terminate the pregnancy she's already dealt with "the truth" long and hard, which is what brought her to her decision? What difference is forcing someone to look at their baby on a screen going to make except more guilt, more depression in the long run when she has already made up her mind? Is a mental picture embedded in the brain really necessary? And that's all it would be, guilt tripping a woman into not going through with the surgery, when she obviously has her own reasons to be there in the first place. Nobody should be FORCED into anything.

Lets say she made up her mind to not go through with the pregnancy because she wasn't ready in any way... and simply because she was forced into looking at the ultrasound she felt too "guilty" .... so after all is said and done, you who are all "for it," you "win" -- where does that leave everything? A woman then has a child out of guilt and force when she knew she wasn't ready for it in the first place? That makes no sense, what is to be accomplished by forcing anyone to do this?

And lets not even get into rape victims.... as if the female isn't most likely traumatized by the rape already -- lets FORCE her to see her unborn child on a monitor before she aborts it. Sounds effective!!!!! Just wondering, who pays for the mental health counseling sessions afterward?

For the first question what is accomplished? well their is a person who gets the opportunity at life...

For the second part it can just as easily be asked who pays for the mental counseling sessions after abortions in general? considering 28 % of women who have abortions attempt suicide after and 1/2 feel some sort of depression. Only about 1% of abortions performed are for rape victims. They deserve to be just as informed on their descision as well, because they are even more at risk of depressioin after an abortion.

although I do agree that they shouldn't be forced to look, but it should be made perfectly clear how developed the fetus is and what happens during an abortion. . .

momma to be ayp wrote: For the first question what is accomplished? well their is a person who gets the opportunity at life...

For the second part it can just as easily be asked who pays for the mental counseling sessions after abortions in general? considering 28 % of women who have abortions attempt suicide after and 1/2 feel some sort of depression. Only about 1% of abortions performed are for rape victims. They deserve to be just as informed on their descision as well, because they are even more at risk of depressioin after an abortion.

although I do agree that they shouldn't be forced to look, but it should be made perfectly clear how developed the fetus is and what happens during an abortion. . .

I think I mentioned that a few posts back. It should be offered, but not forced. People should be educated about pregnancy in case they have been misled. But like I said, who is to say someone who's gonna be forced to look at an ultrasound doesn't already know the facts? If anything, a couple of questions should be asked to see how much knowledge the woman has about her pregnancy. If she's in the dark, she should be made aware of the truth if she is willing to hear it.

And, no, just because someone's forced to look at a sonogram picture doesn't mean the woman's mind is always automatically going to be changed. So, no, there isn't always an opportunity for someone to start a new life. If she still opts for an abortion, all that was accomplished was a guilt trip and an unnecessary mental image, maybe worse depression than what she would've had initially.. who knows? If everyone is aware of the facts of their pregnancy, this whole sonogram BS is completely unnecessary.

I am aware of the rate of suicide after abortion... imagine how much higher it would be if these women who had the procedure done were forced to look at a picture of their unborn child beforehand? THAT is my point! Is it supposed to be "okay" or something... that women commit or attempt suicide after abortion anyway, so who cares if the rates go up cause they had to look at a picture and live with seeing it? I don't understand why you mentioned that part. If a woman has to get counseling based on a decision SHE made, that's one thing.

Offer it, don't force it. No more, no less.

I mentioned the suicide fact becuase I guess I am assuming (im not sure if it is an accurate assumption) that the women who try to commit suicide after are the ones who were maybe not informed or made a rash descision and are regretting it, so if more time was taken to discuss all options at clinics then it could possibly be an avoidable situation for some of these women.

momma to be ayp wrote: For the first question what is accomplished? well their is a person who gets the opportunity at life...

For the second part it can just as easily be asked who pays for the mental counseling sessions after abortions in general? considering 28 % of women who have abortions attempt suicide after and 1/2 feel some sort of depression. Only about 1% of abortions performed are for rape victims. They deserve to be just as informed on their descision as well, because they are even more at risk of depressioin after an abortion.

although I do agree that they shouldn't be forced to look, but it should be made perfectly clear how developed the fetus is and what happens during an abortion. . .

Forcing someone to look at an ultrasound of their unborn child wouldn't necessarily change their mind and give that baby the chance at life..
And you don't have to have an ultrasound to have it made perfectly clear on how developed a fetus is at a certain time nor about what happens during an abortion. When your doctor told you you were pregnant I'm sure he didn't have to show you a video for you to be informed of how it happened....