re: pre abortion ultrasounds?

DawnRenee wrote:

Black Barbie wrote:

ravensroost wrote: Oh and why is seeing the unborn baby cruel to the woman...but the abortion itself isn't cruel?

Women have different reasons for having abortions. Some people can't go through with adoption for personal reasons; do you think it's cruel to bring a child into the world that you're not ready mentally, emotionally, financially, etc. to have? Do you know how many children are born and end up being abused repeatedly and neglected even murdered because of this?

The ultrasound viewing should be offered but not forced on anyone. If someone made a decision and it could very likely be the hardest decision of her life - there is no need for someone to force her to look at an ultrasound picture if she doesn't want to. That's cruel. Mentally, different people can handle different things.

Heh, I was going to answer her but your post said everything I was going to say. Great answer!  

I agree, I wanted to say something, but you said it all for me!

ravensroost wrote: Oh and why is seeing the unborn baby cruel to the woman...but the abortion itself isn't cruel?

No one said it was or wasn't - This isn't a debate about how we feel about abortion personally though.

Flamingomom wrote:

DawnRenee wrote:

Black Barbie wrote:

ravensroost wrote: Oh and why is seeing the unborn baby cruel to the woman...but the abortion itself isn't cruel?

Women have different reasons for having abortions. Some people can't go through with adoption for personal reasons; do you think it's cruel to bring a child into the world that you're not ready mentally, emotionally, financially, etc. to have? Do you know how many children are born and end up being abused repeatedly and neglected even murdered because of this?

The ultrasound viewing should be offered but not forced on anyone. If someone made a decision and it could very likely be the hardest decision of her life - there is no need for someone to force her to look at an ultrasound picture if she doesn't want to. That's cruel. Mentally, different people can handle different things.

Heh, I was going to answer her but your post said everything I was going to say. Great answer!  

I agree, I wanted to say something, but you said it all for me!

Thank you ladies!

Flamingomom wrote: I think it would be cruel to make someone watch an ultrasound that doesn't want to. I don't think it should be about changing people's minds for them.

I do think women should be educated first. But there are others ways to do that other than an ultrasound. They should know how developed the fetus is, and should have to go through counseling before hand.

And if they want to see an ultrasound, then they should be able to. But forcing them to watch it would be like trying to make them feel guilty. They shouldn't be made to feel guilty if it is really what they want, and they are physically and mentally fit to undergo the procedure. If they are really unsure about it, then counselors should be notified, and the procedure shouldn't be done.

Still trying to figure out how it is so cruel.

It's just a mass of cells, right? That's what most pro-choicers who have first trimester abortions say anyway. So what's so cruel about looking at a "mass of cells."

Black Barbie wrote:

ravensroost wrote: Oh and why is seeing the unborn baby cruel to the woman...but the abortion itself isn't cruel?

Women have different reasons for having abortions. Some people can't go through with adoption for personal reasons; do you think it's cruel to bring a child into the world that you're not ready mentally, emotionally, financially, etc. to have? Do you know how many children are born and end up being abused repeatedly and neglected even murdered because of this?

The ultrasound viewing should be offered but not forced on anyone. If someone made a decision and it could very likely be the hardest decision of her life - there is no need for someone to force her to look at an ultrasound picture if she doesn't want to. That's cruel. Mentally, different people can handle different things.

I will never understand why a woman "can't" go through with adoption. Saying they won't is one thing...but saying they "can't" is just not accurate.

They don't "want" to is more the case...because of shame, embarrassment, vanity, "I made a mistake" etc...etc...

Oh and before I get blasted...because I know I will...I have had a first trimester abortion...19 years ago.

It was a mistake (the abortion) and I fully believe that had I gotten counselling from one of these abortion centers instead of fed all the abortion crap, I would have changed my mind. I wish some doctor had "forced" me to look at my baby on the sono before doing the procedure.  

Also, I wish abortion had been illegal because I know I would have never done anything illegal to get rid of my pregnancy nor tried to do it myself.

JMO...

"I will never understand why a woman "can't" go through with adoption. Saying they won't is one thing...but saying they "can't" is just not accurate.

They don't "want" to is more the case...because of shame, embarrassment, vanity, "I made a mistake" etc...etc...

Oh and before I get blasted...because I know I will...I have had a first trimester abortion...19 years ago.

It was a mistake (the abortion) and I fully believe that had I gotten counselling from one of these abortion centers instead of fed all the abortion crap, I would have changed my mind. I wish some doctor had "forced" me to look at my baby on the sono before doing the procedure.  

Also, I wish abortion had been illegal because I know I would have never done anything illegal to get rid of my pregnancy nor tried to do it myself.

JMO..."



Well I would say that most people "won't" do something because they "can't." lol. A lot of people view adoption as something similar to being in foster care, altho it's not the same. It's not for everyone. When you give your child up, there is no way for you to ensure that they will be treated right in the care of someone else. I have a friend who said she couldn't give her baby up for adoption for this reason... because she wouldn't know how her own child would be treated. Just because someone doesn't go through with adoption doesn't mean they're "ashamed" or "embarrassed" or even "vain" -- not everyone's mind operates that way and everyone has a story.

Nowadays, most women do get counseling prior to an abortion... in some states, it's usually mandatory. (I'm sure not EVERY woman gets this, however) I also know that the doctor and staff asks repeatedly if this is what the woman wants to do, is she sure about the decision and nobody is forcing her to abort. (AGAIN, I'm not sure EVERY woman gets this) In your experience if the doctor could have asked you if you wanted to see your baby on ultrasound... (rather than just staple your eyelids to your eyebrows to look at it, without you having a say) if the option were available to you and you would have gone for it... then great for you; it's unfortunate you weren't given the choice... but that doesn't mean anyone has the right to force another woman to view it. They can offer.[/b]

Black Barbie wrote: "I will never understand why a woman "can't" go through with adoption. Saying they won't is one thing...but saying they "can't" is just not accurate.

They don't "want" to is more the case...because of shame, embarrassment, vanity, "I made a mistake" etc...etc...

Oh and before I get blasted...because I know I will...I have had a first trimester abortion...19 years ago.

It was a mistake (the abortion) and I fully believe that had I gotten counselling from one of these abortion centers instead of fed all the abortion crap, I would have changed my mind. I wish some doctor had "forced" me to look at my baby on the sono before doing the procedure.  

Also, I wish abortion had been illegal because I know I would have never done anything illegal to get rid of my pregnancy nor tried to do it myself.

JMO..."



Well I would say that most people "won't" do something because they "can't." lol. A lot of people view adoption as something similar to being in foster care, altho it's not the same. It's not for everyone. When you give your child up, there is no way for you to ensure that they will be treated right in the care of someone else. I have a friend who said she couldn't give her baby up for adoption for this reason... because she wouldn't know how her own child would be treated. Just because someone doesn't go through with adoption doesn't mean they're "ashamed" or "embarrassed" or even "vain" -- not everyone's mind operates that way and everyone has a story.

Nowadays, most women do get counseling prior to an abortion... in some states, it's usually mandatory. (I'm sure not EVERY woman gets this, however) I also know that the doctor and staff asks repeatedly if this is what the woman wants to do, is she sure about the decision and nobody is forcing her to abort. (AGAIN, I'm not sure EVERY woman gets this) In your experience if the doctor could have asked you if you wanted to see your baby on ultrasound... (rather than just staple your eyelids to your eyebrows to look at it, without you having a say) if the option were available to you and you would have gone for it... then great for you; it's unfortunate you weren't given the choice... but that doesn't mean anyone has the right to force another woman to view it. They can offer.[/b]

Dayum Girl! You're on top of it tonight!! Are we related?! Sheesh! Great minds think alike, I always say. ;) Another great answer and a total mirror reflection of what mine would have been! Yay!  

Funny that a woman is worried how her child would be treated once adopted, so instead she opts to just end it's life.

ravensroost wrote:

Flamingomom wrote: I think it would be cruel to make someone watch an ultrasound that doesn't want to. I don't think it should be about changing people's minds for them.

I do think women should be educated first. But there are others ways to do that other than an ultrasound. They should know how developed the fetus is, and should have to go through counseling before hand.

And if they want to see an ultrasound, then they should be able to. But forcing them to watch it would be like trying to make them feel guilty. They shouldn't be made to feel guilty if it is really what they want, and they are physically and mentally fit to undergo the procedure. If they are really unsure about it, then counselors should be notified, and the procedure shouldn't be done.

Still trying to figure out how it is so cruel.

It's just a mass of cells, right? That's what most pro-choicers who have first trimester abortions say anyway. So what's so cruel about looking at a "mass of cells."

It is cruel because not all women just run into abortion clinics happy go lucky that they are having an abortion. I am sure it UPSETS a lot of people. You make it sounds as if these people are excited about what they are doing. It is a terrible decision to have to make, but some women make that decision (for whatever reasons they have, it is THEIR decision)

So yes, it would be cruel to FORCE a woman to look at the child she can't have. Like I said, it is HER decision, and for whatever reason she choose this path, I am sure that she isn't happy about it. (this excludes the people that have multiple abortions and feel no remorse, because those people are out there)

Now if the woman wants to see it, I see no reason why she sholdn't be able to. And I do believe fully that women should be educated about pergnancy and abortion beforehand, and recieve counseling to make sure they are physically and mentally prepared for the backlash, and the emotions that occompany something like this.

But in the end it isn't (and never should be) about changing someone's mind. THey have made that decision for a reason. ANd I for one think it is cruel.

ravensroost wrote: Funny that a woman is worried how her child would be treated once adopted, so instead she opts to just end it's life.

I agree with this statement. I talked to one of my friends whos adopted about her birth mother and she said even though she is not in her life she has no hard feelings and actualy loves her and is thankful to her becuase she did the ultimate act of kindness and gave her a chance to live.... instead of aborting."

I totally agree and that's what I should have done.

But then again...being 17 and young I didn't make the same decisions that I would make now.

You live and you learn.

ravensroost wrote: Funny that a woman is worried how her child would be treated once adopted, so instead she opts to just end it's life.

Thought I mentioned in an earlier post that if women have children when they aren't ready to in any way, there are so many children that are abused and neglected because of this.

My brother is adopted. He holds so much resentment toward EVERYONE for his biological mother giving him up. My parents have done a great job raising him, he has so much more than he would've had if my parents hadn't taken him in. But it seems like it's still not good enough. He's hurt and he's angry and he always says he wishes she would have had an abortion. He feels like he has no place and that even tho my parents wanted him, he was unwanted. Who the hell wants that for their child? And to go through it every day? For their whole life, possibly? Suppose the adopted child doesn't go to a "good" family (which happens more than anyone wants to admit)? Not everyone is Brad and Angelina. I COMPLETELY understand it when a mother feels it is best if her child is not brought into the world, rather than bringing them into the world because she knows she can't care for him/her and isn't sure whoever in the system will be caring for him/her won't mistreat them. You don't understand, that's fine. Maybe you're unaware of how many children are starved, beaten, sexually abused and more... maybe you should Google it -- it's sad and it would haunt me for the rest of my life if *I* had to give *my* child up.

I dunno, sounds like you made the wrong decision in your eyes so you have a chip on your shoulder. I understand it's in the past and you said you made a mistake... but it's kind of hypocritical. Just because it was the wrong decision for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone.... and you didn't go through with an adoption yourself, perhaps you shouldn't expect everyone else to...

Funny how you have nothing to say about what the original topic really is... and no response to anything I said about that.

DawnRenee wrote:


Dayum Girl! You're on top of it tonight!! Are we related?! Sheesh! Great minds think alike, I always say. ;) Another great answer and a total mirror reflection of what mine would have been! Yay!  

LOL. UH, YEAH, we're related.. you don't remember me from the family reunion? I'm offended.

Black Barbie wrote:

ravensroost wrote: Funny that a woman is worried how her child would be treated once adopted, so instead she opts to just end it's life.

Thought I mentioned in an earlier post that if women have children when they aren't ready to in any way, there are so many children that are abused and neglected because of this.

My brother is adopted. He holds so much resentment toward EVERYONE for his biological mother giving him up. My parents have done a great job raising him, he has so much more than he would've had if my parents hadn't taken him in. But it seems like it's still not good enough. He's hurt and he's angry and he always says he wishes she would have had an abortion. He feels like he has no place and that even tho my parents wanted him, he was unwanted. Who the hell wants that for their child? And to go through it every day? For their whole life, possibly? Suppose the adopted child doesn't go to a "good" family (which happens more than anyone wants to admit)? Not everyone is Brad and Angelina. I COMPLETELY understand it when a mother feels it is best if her child is not brought into the world, rather than bringing them into the world because she knows she can't care for him/her and isn't sure whoever in the system will be caring for him/her won't mistreat them. You don't understand, that's fine. Maybe you're unaware of how many children are starved, beaten, sexually abused and more... maybe you should Google it -- it's sad and it would haunt me for the rest of my life if *I* had to give *my* child up.

I dunno, sounds like you made the wrong decision in your eyes so you have a chip on your shoulder. I understand it's in the past and you said you made a mistake... but it's kind of hypocritical. Just because it was the wrong decision for you, doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone.... and you didn't go through with an adoption yourself, perhaps you shouldn't expect everyone else to...

Funny how you have nothing to say about what the original topic really is... and no response to anything I said about that.

I really do agree with you. One of my closest friends was adopted. He is a lucky one. He is thankful to his birth mother, and has no wish of ever meeting her. He has two WONDERFUL parents, that love him endlessly. That is NOT ALWAYS THE CASE. If a woman feels her best option is to have an abortion, who are we to tell her not to? We have never, and will never know her position. She might be completely incapable of caring for a child, or for herself while pregnant.

I know it might have been the wrong decision for you, ravenroost, but the original topic, showing ultrasounds to women about to get abortions, shouldn't be about trying to change their mind. They are the only ones that can choose what to do with their pregnancy. It isn't up to doctors, ultrasound technicians, or anyone else to tell her that she has to keep the baby. It is up to her.

There are so many children without homes already. I am a big supporter of adoption, but it is also a very long process to adopt a child. It takes a lot of factors being perfect at the time for these babies to be placed with families. If they arn't placed, they go to foster homes, and state facilities. Maybe it would be better to give them a chance at life, but it is up to the women in those situations, not anyone else, to change their mind.

I just don't think it should be about trying to "make" people see what is "right" for them, when we will never know what is right for them, only they know that.

Black Barbie wrote:

DawnRenee wrote:


Dayum Girl! You're on top of it tonight!! Are we related?! Sheesh! Great minds think alike, I always say. ;) Another great answer and a total mirror reflection of what mine would have been! Yay!  

LOL. UH, YEAH, we're related.. you don't remember me from the family reunion? I'm offended.

I do I do!! We were the ones at the table still scarfing down food after everyone else was already done! ;)


Raven, I really need to ask you this, Now please don't get offend because I'm really just trying to understand.
Your posts drip with saddness (which is completely undertsandable), but it also drips with resentment to women who wouldn't want to be forced to have an U/S before they abort their pregnancy. Yes, You know how you felt and feel now about the decision that you've made, but it seems like you're questioning their choices even when the situation isn't always the same. Sometimes adoption isn't always the right answer, or going ahead and having the baby when you know you have a dire situation. Yes, You're sad about having an abortion when you were 17, but it was YOUR choice to, for Whatever reasons you had at the time and you now know you'd never do it again and regret it deeply. I get it. But what I don't get is how you can question over and over about other womens choices, Because you've been there before!

Geesh, I don't even know if I made any sense. I had a late night.