Forums > Debate & DiscussPage > 6by: God

Gnosis vs. Agnosis

posted 5th Mar
Since people for some reason do not understand these concepts and continually misstate what they mean, I'm going to clarify:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic.htm

Gnosticism is a philosophical and religious movement which started in pre-Christian times. The name is derived from the Greek word "gnosis" which literally means "knowledge." However, the English words "Insight" and "enlightenment" capture more of the meaning of "gnosis." It is pronounced with a silent "G" (NO-sis). Gnosticism is not factual, intellectual, rational knowledge, such as is involved in mathematics and physics; that would have been more accurately represented by the Greek world "episteme." Rather, Gnosticism involves the relational or experiential knowledge of God and of the divine or spiritual nature within us. A visitor to this web site wrote: "...we believe that gnosis-knowledge requires ultimate transcendence of the merely intellectual to be actualized." 1

Gnostics believe that they have secret knowledge about God, humanity and the rest of the universe of which the general population was unaware. It became one of the three main belief systems within 1st century Christianity, and was noted for four factors by which differed from the two other branches of Christianity:
Novel beliefs about Gods, the Bible and the world which differed from those of other Christian groups.
Tolerance of different religious beliefs within and outside of Gnosticism.
Lack of discrimination against women. Although Jesus treated women as equals, and Paul mostly did the same, the other Christian belief systems started to oppress women in later generations.
A belief that salvation is achieved through relational and experiential knowledge. In the words of The contemporary Gnostic Apostolic Church, humanity needs to be awakened and brought "to a realisation of his true nature. Mankind is moving towards the Omega Point, the Great day when all must graduate or fall. This day is also the Day of Judgment in that only those who have entered the Path of Transfiguration and are being reborn can return to the Treasury of Light." 2
The movement and its literature were essentially wiped out before the end of the 5th century CE by Catholic heresy hunters and the Roman Army. Its beliefs are currently experiencing a rebirth throughout the world, triggered in part by the discovery of an ancient Gnostic library at Nag Hammadi, Egypt in the 1940s, and the finding of the Gospel of Judas at El Minya, Egypt, in the 1970s.

Agnosticism:
Uncertainty about whether God exists


http://www.religioustolerance.org/agnostic.htm

The range of meanings of the term: "Agnostic:"

Agnosticism is a concept, not a full religion. It is a belief related to the existence or non-existence of God. However, many people have started with an Agnosticism, and have added a moral code, rituals and other items to create a belief system with many of the attributes of a religion. When asked what their religion is, many Agnostics will reply "Agnostic." Since so many Agnostics regard this as their religion, we have a policy of capitalizing the term out of respect, as we do for all religions on this web site. This is not often seen on the Internet, but we feel that it is appropriate.

Agnosticism implies uncertainty about the existence of God. The basic problem here is that there are many answers to the question "Does God exist?" However there is only this one term available to cover all of the meanings. Some of today's possible overlapping answers to the question are:

  • I don't personally know.
  • I don't know but will lead my life in the assumption that no God exists.
  • I don't know but will lead my life assuming that God does exist.
  • I cannot give an opinion because there is no way that we can prove the existence or non-existence of God given currently available knowledge.
  • I cannot give an opinion because there is no way to know, with certainty, anything about God, now and in the future.
  • Yes, God exists. But we do not know anything about God at this time.
  • Yes, God exists. But we have no possibility of knowing anything about God, now or in the future.

Ultimately, the term "Agnostic" is something like "Christianity." Both refer to a wide diversity of belief systems, but in many cases, an individual asserts that their particular definition is the only fully valid one.

The one principle linking all meanings of "Agnostic" is that God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved, on the basis of current evidence. Agnostics note that some theologians and philosophers have tried to to prove, for millennia, that God exists. Others have attempted to prove that God does not exist. Agnostics feel that neither side has convincingly succeeded at their task.

Evolution of the term "Agnostic" over time:

Three main meanings have been associated with "Agnostic" since Thomas H. Huxley invented the term in the mid-19th century
  • Huxley defined agnosticism as follows: "... it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism." 11
  • "... an agnostic is someone who not only is undecided concerning the existence of God, but who also thinks that the question of God’s existence is in principle unanswerable. We cannot know whether or not God exists, according to an agnostic, and should therefore neither believe nor disbelieve in him." 12
  • An agnostic is undecided about whether or not God exists.

Are Agnostics also Atheists?

Agnostics are not Theists. Agnostics do not believe in a God, or a Goddess, or in multiple Gods, or multiple Goddesses or in a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses. However, some Agnostics consider themselves to be Atheists. That is because the term "Atheist" has two slightly different meanings:
1. A person who positively believes that no God(s) or Goddess(es) exists. E. Haldeman-Julius suggests that:
"The atheist perceives that history, in every branch of science, in the plainly observable realities of life and in the processes of common sense there is no place for the picture of a God; the idea doesn't fit in with a calmly reasoned and realistic view of life. The atheist, therefore denies the assumptions of theism because they are mere assumptions and are not proved; whereas the contrary evidences, against the idea of theism, are overwhelming." 1
This is the definition of Atheism used by most Christians, other Theists, and dictionaries of the English language.
2. A person who has no belief in a God or Goddess. Just as a newborn has no concept of a deity, some adults also have no such belief. The term "Atheist" is derived from the Greek words "a" which means "without" and "Theos" which means "God." A person can be a non-Theist by simply lacking a belief in God without actively denying God's existence. This is the definition of Atheism used by many Atheists. They use the term "strong Atheist" to refer to a person who denies the existence of one or more deities.

Some Agnostics feel that their beliefs match the second definition, and thus consider themselves to be both Atheist and an Agnostic. Such confusion is common in the field of religion. We have found 17 definitions for the term "Witch," eight for "cult," and six for the "Pagan." -- all different. A lack of clear, unambiguous definitions for religious terms is responsible for a great deal of confusion and hatred. It makes dialog among Agnostics, Theists, and Atheists very difficult. In fact, when such a dialogue is attempted, it should be preceded with a long session to resolve definitions.

As currently defined, an agnostic usually holds the question of the existence of God open, pending the arrival of more evidence. They are willing to change their belief if some solid evidence or logical proof is found in the future.

Further definitions:

George Smith, the author of "Atheism" divides agnostics into two types:
  • Agnostic theists: those who believe that a deity probably exists;
  • Agnostic atheists: those who believe that it is very improbable that a deity exists. 5

Another category of Agnostic is "empirical Agnostics." They believe that God may exist, but that little or nothing can be known about him/her/it/them. Still another category are "Agnostic Humanists." These individuals are undecided about the existence of God. Further, they do not really consider the question to be particularly important. They have derived their moral and behavioral codes from secular considerations. Their ethical behavior would not be altered if a deity were proven to exist.Some agnostics who feel the need for religious discussion, fellowship, or ritual join a congregation of the Unitarian-Universalist Association or an Ethical Culture group.

Dictionary definitions of "Agnostic:"

  • Houghton Mifflin: "One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism." 8
  • Columbia encyclopedia: "[A belief] that the existence of God cannot be logically proved or disproved. Agnosticism is not to be confused with atheism which asserts that there is no God." 9
  • Wikipedia: ['A belief] that the (truth) values of certain claims -- particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God, gods, or deities -- are unknown, inherently unknowable, or incoherent, and therefore, irrelevant to life." 10
  • Merriam-Webster: "A person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god." 13
  • Die.net: "One who professes ignorance, or denies that we have any knowledge, save of phenomena; one who supports agnosticism, neither affirming nor denying the existence of a personal Deity, a future life, etc." 14

So, to sum up:

GNOSIS: The name is derived from the Greek word "gnosis" which literally means "knowledge." However, the English words "Insight" and "enlightenment" capture more of the meaning of "gnosis." Gnosticism involves the relational or experiential knowledge of God and of the divine or spiritual nature within us.

AGNOSIS: The one principle linking all meanings of "Agnostic" is that God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved, on the basis of current evidence. As currently defined, an agnostic usually holds the question of the existence of God open, pending the arrival of more evidence. They are willing to change their belief if some solid evidence or logical proof is found in the future.

C.
quote
I have 2 kids & live in St. Catharines, Ontario
posted 5th Mar
now who is going to read all this? and who cares?
quote
I have 1 child & live in Odessa, Texas
posted 5th Mar
you know i think i am going to PT you (if you dont mind?) , yourposts are always really fascinating and a great read !!! 
quote
I have 3 kids & live in Toronto, Ontario
posted 5th Mar
Quoting 2Mommas and 1Aaden:“ now who is going to read all this? and who cares?”




i read most commented and going to finish now ... 

i actually find religous debat very fascinating 
quote
I have 3 kids & live in Toronto, Ontario
posted 5th Mar
there is no debate in this post...she was defining the 2 terms....
quote
I have 1 child & live in Odessa, Texas
posted 5th Mar
Quoting 2Mommas and 1Aaden:“ now who is going to read all this? and who cares?”

The regulars of D&D will enjoy it, heh.

C.
quote
I have 2 kids & live in St. Catharines, Ontario
posted 5th Mar
Quoting ☣Octavias mom☣:“ you know i think i am going to PT you (if you dont mind?) , yourposts are always really fascinating and a great read !!!”

I don't mind, thanks  

And though it's OT, congrats on the birth  

C.
quote
I have 2 kids & live in St. Catharines, Ontario
posted 5th Mar
Quoting 2Mommas and 1Aaden:“ now who is going to read all this? and who cares?”

I would say the moron who is going to say I"m Gnostic, I don't believe in God should read this and care lol
quote
I'm due June 19th, have 1 child & live in Chicago, Illinois
posted 5th Mar
Quoting God:“ I don't mind, thanks   And though it's OT, congrats on the birth   C.”

thank youdoll !!!!! <3 
quote
I have 3 kids & live in Toronto, Ontario
posted 5th Mar
Quoting jessika g:“ I would say the moron who is going to say I"m Gnostic, I don't believe in God should read this and care lol”

FYI typing one handed so sorry :S 


welli dont belive in god - i belive in a higher source that there is something there but yet i can not efine it as "god" the one etc - whatever you wat to call him/her wither it be ganesh a deitie (SP)  a light source , or a goddamn fart int he wind - i can NOT say YES there is a GOD YES he CREATED US 

i simply need to see to belive - for where was "he" when i needed it the most i was once VERY religous very very devout christian actually belive it or not and yeah no proof just empty words to a empty book NOT EVEN written by him .... empty prayers to a empty church NOT EVEN created by him ..... i do belive something is out there and i do pray but it is not directed at any one specific person i still follow wiccan tradtions but i do not pray to the "gods"
so i guess im a moron ... 
quote
I have 3 kids & live in Toronto, Ontario
posted 5th Mar
Quoting God:“ Since people for some reason do not understand these concepts and continually misstate what they mean, ... [snip!] ... of more evidence. They are willing to change their belief if some solid evidence or logical proof is found in the future. C. ”

Well that is my something new learned today   Great reading. Thanks xoxoxoxoxoxo
quote
I have 4 kids & 4 angel babies & live in Nutting Lake, Massachusetts
posted 5th Mar
Quoting 2Mommas and 1Aaden:“ now who is going to read all this? and who cares?”

Hmmmm. I read it and I care so.....me    
quote
I have 4 kids & 4 angel babies & live in Nutting Lake, Massachusetts
posted 5th Mar
I know my target audience well  

C.
quote
I have 2 kids & live in St. Catharines, Ontario
posted 5th Mar
Quoting ☣Octavias mom☣:“ FYI typing one handed so sorry :S welli dont belive in god - i belive in a higher source that there ... [snip!] ... directed at any one specific person i still follow wiccan tradtions but i do not pray to the "gods" so i guess im a moron ...”

I'm not saying I think a person is a moron because they don't believe in God I said it because it should have been Agnostic  
quote
I'm due June 19th, have 1 child & live in Chicago, Illinois
posted 5th Mar
Quoting jessika g:“ I'm not saying I think a person is a moron because they don't believe in God I said it because it should have been Agnostic  



ah ok sorry im very very tired lol ... i read it wrong - it came off as if you where saying that people who dont belive are morons ;) 
quote
I have 3 kids & live in Toronto, Ontario
nextpost reply

allsearch

topic keyword(s)

member display name

who's online

There are 1216 people online527 members & 689 guestssee all 527 members
alllatest topics
Aiyanna and Layla's Mommy postedAny ladies with Mirena??now
chunky mum and bub [BGFM] postedhelp1 min ago
A.Trevino postedI'm scared1 min ago
[Goobies Mom ♥] posted10 Carter's Body Suits FS1 min ago
♥Oji-Cree Momma postedMy Wee Journey!!4 min ago
Snotface :] postedFuck you too AF4 min ago
BigBeautifulBowsCo. postedGun Shots.8 min ago
Haylee's Momma posted2nd time moms(or more)8 min ago
Ill Call You Bentley!! postedstrong back pains & cramping?9 min ago
sponsors
about us login register
forums tickers pregnancy strollers search
members pregnancy parenting photos & media everything else
my accountregister / loginsearchmembers mapwhos onlineadvanced search
calendar weeks 1 - 40 due date calculator top 40 books cartoons pregnancy models sarcastic journalist forums resources & links pregnancy issues due date buddies teen pregnancy baby names ttc & adoption suffering & loss abortion survivors preparing for baby labor & birth tickers pregnancy tickers
forums resources & links post partum issues teen parenting special needs parents with preemies parents with infants parents with toddlers parents with kids tickers birthday tickers
member albums family funny stuff pregnancy babies home stuff miscellaneous forums the photo spot
forumsfree for all sex & relationships debate & discuss contests & competitions creation station weight loss & fitness shopping & classifieds faqs & feedback the drama corner

About | Site Map | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise

All contents copyright © baby-gaga.com 2003-2009. All Rights Reserved.