Forums > Debate & DiscussPage 1 2by: crazy coupon lady

Canada's new ruling

posted 6th Feb
What are your thoughts on this? canadian american etc....dont matter, just wanting thoughts on this.

I personally think its a bad idea, since mostemployersalready did their best to accomodate parents. just want to know your thoughts.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/court-says-employers-must-accommodate-staffs-child-care-requests/article8288899/


Employers who once believed family matters have no business in the workplace will have to start rethinking their position if they hope to stay on the right side of Canada’s evolving employment laws, experts suggested Tuesday.
A landmark federal court decision that states workplaces are obliged to accommodate reasonable childcare-related requests from their employees signals significant changes ahead for the country’s employment law landscape, lawyers said.

The decision handed down by Justice Leonard Mandamin explicitly states that requests for childcare accommodations stem from genuine need and are not simply the product of lifestyle choices.
Judge Mandamin’s ruling was made in the context of parents grappling with irregular shift work, but experts suggest the ruling could pave the way for much more broad based discussion on the role family life plays in the workplace.
Stuart Rudner, employment law specialist with Miller Thomson LLP, said the decision makes a bold statement about the country’s legal landscape.
Disability, gender and religion are no longer the primary basis for human rights complaints, he said, adding family-related issues are bound to gain more prominence in the coming years.
“This is likely the next frontier,” Rudner said in a telephone interview. “(The ruling) does set the precedent now that confirmed what many of us suspected, which is that employers are susceptible to these complaints.”
Judge Mandamin’s ruling, delivered late last week, upheld a successful human rights case launched by Ottawa resident Fiona Johnstone.
Both Johnstone and her husband worked as full-time employees of the Canada Border Services Agency, putting in a series of irregular, rotating shifts before their first child was born in 2003.
Johnstone asked the agency to accommodate her childcare needs by allowing her to work more stable shifts. The agency declined, saying the only way to maintain a static schedule was to cut back to part-time hours.
Johnstone filed a complaint that ultimately came before the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal in 2010.
The tribunal ruled in her favour, saying the agency had discriminated against Johnstone on the basis of her family status.
Judge Mandamin’s ruling supported the tribunal’s findings.
“The CBSA allowed individualized assessments of employees seeking accommodation on medical or religious grounds but responded to Ms. Johnstone on the basis of a blanket policy that required her to forfeit her status as a full-time employee,” Judge Mandamin wrote.
“The CBSA’s policy was based on the arbitrary assumption that the need for accommodation on the basis of family obligations was merely the result of choices that individuals make, rather than legitimate need.”
Canada’s demographics alone are a factor in the emerging trend, Rudner said. Parents are not only having to care for their children, but will increasingly be required to care for aging and ailing members of the older generations.
Rudner predicted cases involving elder care will surface in court before too long.
But the ruling that may seem encouraging to thousands of struggling employees does not represent an unqualified victory, he said. The decision forces employers to accommodate family status requests up to the point of “undue hardship,” a concept he said is left loosely defined.
“The courts and tribunals want to maintain discretion to look at every individual case,” he said. “But the most important factor in determining undue hardship is probably going to be cost. A large company with more significant financial resources will probably be expected to be more flexible than a small business.”
The ruling also leaves the onus on employees to prove that they have made reasonable efforts to sort out their family obligations before requesting help from their employers, Rudner said.
That, child care experts say, is easier said than done.
Winnipeg’s Discovery Children’s Centre is one of only a handful of programs that offer child care services for parents contending with non-traditional work hours.
The flex program — which remains open until 12:30 a.m. on weekdays and 7:30 p.m. on Saturdays — is in high demand from the more than 900 people on the centre’s waiting list, said program director Donna Freeman.
The logistical challenges of staffing such a program while remaining within provincial licensing guidelines, however, mean the service can’t be offered as widely as families might like to see.
“That one program is more work administratively than the other 240 spaces in our centre,” she said. “But we know that it’s needed in the community, so that’s why we do it.”
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I have 3 kids & live in Ontario
posted 6th Feb
Anyone in a union or working for a well-known corporation (McDonald's, Walmart, etc..) already had these rights. This only really effects small businesses and their employees.
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I have 1 child & live in Beverly Hills, California
posted 6th Feb
Quoting Amαndα ♕:" Anyone in a union or working for a well-known corporation (McDonald's, Walmart, etc..) already had these rights. This only really effects small businesses and their employees."


have worked at both and they definately did not accomodate. sure if they had others to work those shifts, but if not, then no they didnt. Timmies did though.
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I have 3 kids & live in Ontario
posted 6th Feb
<blockquote><b>Quoting crazy coupon lady:</b>" have worked at both and they definately did not accomodate. sure if they had others to work those shifts, but if not, then no they didnt. Timmies did though."</blockquote>




Well, that is accommodating. Trying to fill your shift is definitely putting forth the effort.
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I have 1 child & live in Beverly Hills, California
posted 6th Feb
I wish we had this here   There's so many people I work with(Walmart) that miss their kids 5 days of the week due to the kids going to school and the parents working until 10pm even after asking to work earlier. We usually get the "sucks to be you, you shouldn't have had kids" line. It's annoying and pisses me off that they can't give us a little. I can't move out because I need to stay with my parents because daycare closes early and it's too expensive in the area my parents live around to get a place.
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I have 1 child & live in Pennsylvania
posted 6th Feb
Glad this passed two days after I signed at contract at a new job.. who gave me a "tough titties" attitude that I have children. I was required to say I was available any time in order to get a job, when really I am not. So I doubt it will last. hah.
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I'm due September 28th (a girl), have 4 kids & live in Nova Scotia
posted 6th Feb
Quoting Amαndα ♕:" <blockquote><b>Quoting crazy coupon lady:</b>" have worked at both and they definately ... [snip!] ... though."</blockquote> Well, that is accommodating. Trying to fill your shift is definitely putting forth the effort."

No meaning that they wouldnt allow us to pick our shifts ever, cause then they would have to find someone else to work those shifts. They never tried to accomodate anyone. At all.
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I have 3 kids & live in Ontario
posted 6th Feb
<blockquote><b>Quoting crazy coupon lady:</b>" No meaning that they wouldnt allow us to pick our shifts ever, cause then they would have to find someone else to work those shifts. They never tried to accomodate anyone. At all."</blockquote>




I've had different experiences, but TBH if you've ever asked for a different shift because of a doctors appointment or a reoccurring therapy appointment, or something along those lines and been declined. It will be handled in the exact same manner,

It just means your family needs to be taken into consideration the same way an illness or disability would be.

It will be very hard to prove an employer did not use due diligence to accommodate you and very easy for them to prove they did (even when they did not) all it changes is them openly telling you "too bad" and instead they have to say "ill see what I can do"
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I have 1 child & live in Beverly Hills, California
posted 6th Feb
<blockquote><b>Quoting Noneya Business:</b>" I wish we had this here   There's so many people I work with(Walmart) that miss their kids 5 days of ... [snip!] ... to stay with my parents because daycare closes early and it's too expensive in the area my parents live around to get a place."</blockquote>


I only get to spend time with my children on weekends.   I go into work at 1 and work I till 8:30-9:00. My kids are already asleep when I get home.  
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I have 2 kids & live in Canon, Georgia
posted 6th Feb
Quoting Minion:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Noneya Business:</b>" I wish we had this here   There's so ... [snip!] ... with my children on weekends.   I go into work at 1 and work I till 8:30-9:00. My kids are already asleep when I get home.  "




That's how it is for me. Now since I switched to pharmacy I'm off 2 weekends and work one but before that they literally laughed in my face when I said I couldn't work until 11pm because I had a small child, my mom(who watches LO) had to work and daycare closes early.
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I have 1 child & live in Pennsylvania
posted 7th Feb
<blockquote><b>Quoting Noneya Business:</b>" That's how it is for me. Now since I switched to pharmacy I'm off 2 weekends and work one but before ... [snip!] ... I said I couldn't work until 11pm because I had a small child, my mom(who watches LO) had to work and daycare closes early."</blockquote>



When I worked at my last job, my daughter was sick and I called in to take care of her. My boss then told me no, I had to come in. I told him that I couldn't just take her to a babysitter when she is sick. My boss told me, and I quote, "Then you just need to get a better support system."
I hung up on him and never went back.
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I have 2 kids & live in Canon, Georgia
posted 7th Feb
Quoting Minion:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Noneya Business:</b>" That's how it is for me. Now since ... [snip!] ... sick. My boss told me, and I quote, "Then you just need to get a better support system." I hung up on him and never went back."




I can't miss anymore days because of how much LO was sick. Even with doctor's notes I hit my 6 days in 6 months. It sucks.
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I have 1 child & live in Pennsylvania
posted 7th Feb
<blockquote><b>Quoting Noneya Business:</b>" I can't miss anymore days because of how much LO was sick. Even with doctor's notes I hit my 6 days in 6 months. It sucks."</blockquote>




Really. That sucks. I took off as many days as I needed to with my kids, including a month straight and got paid suck leave for 2 of those weeks. I guess one of the perks of being in Canada.

I don't agree with this new ruling though. Its going to cause all the none parent workers to work smurffy ass shifts that the employees that have kids can't or just don't want to work. It should have a limitation on it in place somewhere ....Kwim?
quotesmurfs?
I have 3 kids & live in Ontario
posted 7th Feb
<blockquote><b>Quoting crazy coupon lady:</b>" <blockquote><b>Quoting Noneya Business:</b>" I can't miss anymore days because ... [snip!] ... the employees that have kids can't or just don't want to work. It should have a limitation on it in place somewhere ....Kwim?"</blockquote>

You are over estimating the impact of this ruling. It just means family gets taken into consideration in the same way a disability or illness would. It doesn't meant they get everything they want because they have kids. It simply means that rather than being told "too bad" when you request a shift change and then fired for not being available enough you instead get told "let me see what I can do" and they try to accommodate you.

Do you really feel shafted by people with disabilities? Like they get treated so much better than "regular employees"? Doubtful, it'll be the same.

And it's only in Canada because we have a declining Canadian population and they need to make it easier for people to have more children.

Also, it needs to be proven, and you don't get to just bail on any shift you want, it just means that people with families get seniority over shift choosing like many other people with other recognized responsibilities. It's not a get out of jail free card. It's just a recognizable responsibility.
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I have 1 child & live in Beverly Hills, California
posted 7th Feb
<blockquote><b>Quoting crazy coupon lady:</b>" <blockquote><b>Quoting Noneya Business:</b>" I can't miss anymore days because ... [snip!] ... the employees that have kids can't or just don't want to work. It should have a limitation on it in place somewhere ....Kwim?"</blockquote>

You are over estimating the impact of this ruling. It just means family gets taken into consideration in the same wa
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I have 1 child & live in Beverly Hills, California
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