re: do you think...

Quoting ☮ Phuket:" people who cause an accidnet and someone dies get charged with mansalughter. they didnt mean to do ... [snip!] ... i knew a couple like that. and yes if my kid was being harrassed at school i would of have done something to help stop it."

But you just said it... people CAUSE and accident. They cause the direct means of someone's death. The reason they don't get charged with murder is because intent was not there... like drinking and driving. The cause of the physical death in a suicide case, is the person who committed suicide. I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you, but from a legal standpoint, I don't think it would hold up.

Quoting Red Bottom:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Asher's mommy [Expecting :</b>" When a child is bullying kids ... [snip!] ... or denial in my opinion. "</blockquote> In how many bullying cases, have you seen that the parent was aware?"

A TON. I was bullied horribly in middle school. My mother called every single parent of every single child. Most of the mothers immediately jumped to the defense of their kids saying that their child would NEVER do something like that. Denial. Point blank. I've seen that happen time and time again.

Let me also ETA that looking back, I don't think those kids who bullied me were crazy. They have all developed into fully functioning adults who I'm sure have reaped the consequences of being such jackasses. Their bullying was motivated by jealousy and peer pressure. But when a child has low self-esteem to the point of making one person's life miserable to make their own seem better, it still begs for some counseling.

Quoting Red Bottom:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Mama*AtoZ:</b>" Your idea of good parents may not fall into ... [snip!] ... are on here? Do you think that in real life, people know they're as insane as they come off on here? Same goes for kids."

Sorry you've lost me. Can you explain in any simpler way? (if it's any excuse, i'm not from the US  )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Phoebe_Prince


It's already happened here.

Quoting Red Bottom:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Asher's mommy [Expecting :</b>" I agree. But if your child ... [snip!] ... here day and night. And they have kids. I highly doubt the people around them know they're as crazy as they come off on here."

Ok i think i get you now with this explanation. So you think parents won't know if they're child has issues that are causing bullying?
Teachers, friends and other family members could notice things too. But i think a parent should be sensitive and aware to all their child's needs and behaviours that could result in bullying. That comes with involved parenting right from birth though, and the majority are not continuing to treat their kids in that manner as they grow up so it's no surprise how much bullying goes on. I think education has a lot to do with this, it's really lacking.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Asher's mommy [Expecting :</b>" A TON. I was bullied horribly in middle school. My mother called every single parent of every single ... [snip!] ... saying that their child would NEVER do something like that. Denial. Point blank. I've seen that happen time and time again. "</blockquote>

See I've seen the opposite. My parents would be confronted by the parents be pissed at me for being around the kids doing the bullying and "forbid" me from sitting next to them. You think any kid is going to move away from the bullies just to end up being bullied themselves? Not likely- especially not at 12

Quoting Buzz and Almond Joys momm:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Asher's mommy [Expecting :</b>" A TON. I was bullied horribly ... [snip!] ... think any kid is going to move away from the bullies just to end up being bullied themselves? Not likely- especially not at 12"

That's why I added an ETA... I think that a lot of bullying can be accounted for in peer pressure. Which is a form of being bullied in itself, I think.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Asher's mommy [Expecting :</b>" That's why I added an ETA... I think that a lot of bullying can be accounted for in peer pressure. Which is a form of being bullied in itself, I think. "</blockquote>




I think the majority of bullying is peer pressure. Usually it's because of 1 or 2 people and the rest are tagalongs ( I want cookies now lol)
I do think some kids can be bullied into following along ( like they tell them I will do to you what I do to her) but the rest is them willingly doing it because tey know what will happen

Quoting Red Bottom:" If parents get punished, kids won't be deterred for a second. The abuser should be held 100% accountable."

If the parents took responsibility then the kids may well not be bullying in the first place. Kids have to feel bad to be able to bully others, most kids do not have disorders that cause it, they have unmet needs and are acting out and being little dicks because they don't know how to behave properly. Punishing them may be a deterrent for others, but one that could we have gotten them in the predicament in the first place. Do as i DO, not as i say. Teach kids to be self aware, to be thoughtful, kind, respectful, compassionate, helpful, understanding, truthful, honest etc teach them by raising them that way. Raise them with control and doing negative things to them and what do you expect. Kids everyday are being trained to be little bullies, what is it - about 60% of parents hit their kids for obedience training and use power to control them. It's all they know, conditional treatment. 1) they feel like smurf and take it out on others and 2) they're being taught how to control those more vulnerable. Parents need to stop thinking about gaining compliance at home and start thinking about the future more when they interact with their kids and the lessons they impart on them. Of course there will be times when kids mess up and treat others wrong, but bullying is repetitive behaviour and there are people around to witness and address it. Imo 'kids will be kids' does not extend to bullying, that is chronic bad behaviour that parents need to address.

Quoting Asher's mommy [Expecting :" A TON. I was bullied horribly in middle school. My mother called every single parent of every single ... [snip!] ... to the point of making one person's life miserable to make their own seem better, it still begs for some counseling. "

I agree. Some parents are totally in denial and that helps no one.

Quoting Buzz and Almond Joys momm:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Asher's mommy [Expecting :</b>" That's why I added an ETA... ... [snip!] ... they tell them I will do to you what I do to her) but the rest is them willingly doing it because tey know what will happen"

Don't you think that could be considered, in itself, a form of psychological abuse from the "ringleader", though?

Quoting Mama*AtoZ:" If the parents took responsibility then the kids may well not be bullying in the first place. Kids have ... [snip!] ... address it. Imo 'kids will be kids' does not extend to bullying, that is chronic bad behaviour that parents need to address."

"Kids will be kids", and more commonly, "boys will be boys" is the most ridiculous excuse I've ever heard of. And yes, it is an EXCUSE for smurffy behavior... nothing more.

When my son is playing with some kids and they are all consensually jumping around and not paying attention to what is going on, and someone gets hurt-- that is "boys will be boys." Far more often, it is one kid being a little smurf, and a parent who is in denial or is too lazy or too busy to correct their child's crappy behavior, which results in the child acting out. As simple as that.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Asher's mommy [Expecting :</b>" Don't you think that could be considered, in itself, a form of psychological abuse from the "ringleader", though? "</blockquote>




No I don't. That's normal kids making te decision to follow the crowd. In my case no one told me what would happen I just chose it for myself to avoid the possibility if being picked on.
I don't agree with putting the blame on someone for something they really did not do. It was never anyone's fault that I followed the group.

Quoting Asher's mommy [Expecting :" "Kids will be kids", and more commonly, "boys will be boys" is the most ridiculous excuse I've ever ... [snip!] ... or is too lazy or too busy to correct their child's crappy behavior, which results in the child acting out. As simple as that."

It really bugs me. There was a boy going around in indoor play kicking and hitting and pushing all the other kids, including babies and my child, but there was no parent to be seen. Another child who was 3x older than me repeatedly called him names, pushed him and made fun of him, i asked her to "please stop he's only little" and what happened - her mother was so in denial that she intimidated me, yelled at me and slammed a door in my face (infront of my kid) before i could even speak! It's not hard to see why her child was a bully. I think bullying with young children in particular has some responsibility with the parents and ignoring that is just failing the kids even more. Parents and kids should go to education classes on bullying together if their kid is acting up.

You know, back in the day, the playground bully would get their ass whooped and the bully would learn their lesson.