re: America will be the next Nazi Germany

Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" Getting people back to work is not going to solve a $1 trillion shortfall. Especially if they're going back to work for the government."

But it will. People having jobs increases revenue on a lot different levels.

Quoting emerald01:" They give to their big donors who don't need it, which don't help him. It doesn't help when your whole business was making money from people losing their jobs while stashing it in offshore accounts. "

Do you even understand what Romney's business did?

Let's say a company of 500 people is losing money and is about to go out of business. Romney's company would come in and make necessary cuts (say, laying off 100 people) so that the rest of the company would start making profits again. The media LOVED to focus on the fact that 100 people just lost their job in this scenario without mentioning the 400 people who were able to keep their jobs because of Bain.

And Obama has money in offshore accounts too. Oh, but the media didn't blast that all over their front pages so you probably weren't even aware.

Quoting emerald01:" But it will. People having jobs increases revenue on a lot different levels. "

Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" Getting people back to work is not going to solve a $1 trillion shortfall. Especially if they're going back to work for the government."

Of course it is ... its called taxes. Everyone who earns money should get taxed on a sliding scale without then having it all given back to them at the end of the year. I mean seriously from what I understand people in America right now actually get more back in their tax returns than they're paying in and nobody thinks that's a problem? My God we tax people on their welfare here. I get taxed a t 37c in the dollar, plus when I take paid maternity leave I'll get taxed on that to. Its how our economy stays so strong.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Destiel:</b>" Of course it is ... its called taxes. Everyone who earns money should get taxed on a sliding scale without ... [snip!] ... a t 37c in the dollar, plus when I take paid maternity leave I'll get taxed on that to. Its how our economy stays so strong."</blockquote>




It isn't a solution as the proportion of spending compared with possible income from taxes is that the deficit can't be made-up. The math doesn't work.

And, SOME Americans get more back than they pay. And, ~47% pay no income federal income tax. We could certainly make some common sense changes there, but until we address entitlement spending and discretionary spending, the deficit will only grow. And, our president has no intention of making any moves to close the gap.

Quoting Bangtail:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Mara:</b>" i'm going to admit my complacency straight up. it's ... [snip!] ... of all things reasonable!"</blockquote> And, I'm anti-two-party politics. It just becomes one giant game of red rover."

Completely agree. Although any time a new party tries to emerge or an existing one tries to gain a little more clout, (tea party, green party, etc)... we shoot them down in support of someone more popular.

It's like high school elections all over again. Popularity wins. Often people don't take the time to read all of what the candidate stands for or their policies. I am against red or blue, because I'm right in the effing middle. Both sides are so extreme "it's either my way or the highway", and there is no compromise or middle ground.

<blockquote><b>Quoting emerald01:</b>" You would have to pay bond holders before anybody else, but it would cause the markets to crash. "</blockquote>




I have no doubt that the stock market would suffer if the debt ceiling wasn't raised. The dip, like all historic dips, would be temporary. And, it would help speed along the process to get a deal done that has us be healthier in 2 years than we are today.
We have to look at the bigger picture rather than bite our nails about the what-ifs in the short-term.
Making hard decisions now will stave off austerity measures and deeper cuts later when we have no better choices.

And, the debt IS our problem right now. Deficit spending IS our problem today and it was yesterday. Its math.

<blockquote><b>Quoting emerald01:</b>" You can't look at it like that because those austerity measures make it worse; in Spain nearly 40% unemployment. You're getting even lees revenue coming in. "</blockquote>




It's the only sensible way of looking at it. Fortunately, we aren't Spain. Spain has been socialist or semi-socialist for a long time. We should learn from their mistakes and there limited choices due to years and years of colossal mistakes.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Destiel:</b>" Of course it is ... its called taxes. Everyone who earns money should get taxed on a sliding scale without ... [snip!] ... a t 37c in the dollar, plus when I take paid maternity leave I'll get taxed on that to. Its how our economy stays so strong."</blockquote>


If the spending increases match or surpass the amount of new money taken in, then no, it won't. We are already spending more then we take in. Putting people to work in jobs that most often do not make enough to pay taxes, then giving them access to tax breaks will help nothing. Then continuing to tax businesses out the ass, preventing them from being able to raise their employee's salary? Nowhere in there is there anything that actually stimulates the economy and helps with debt. Then, with obamacare, there are certain medical professions that will essentially cease to exist in certain states. No, I'm not being alarmist; it's simple truth. Professions like surgical first assistants are already not covered under Medicaid and Medicare but they can still make money through private providers. Unfortunately, their services will no longer be covered under certain exchange programs. So, we are creating programs that cost people their jobs, losing essential tax payers, and claiming this will somehow stimulate the economy?

It's simple freaking math.

Quoting Destiel:" Of course it is ... its called taxes. Everyone who earns money should get taxed on a sliding scale without ... [snip!] ... a t 37c in the dollar, plus when I take paid maternity leave I'll get taxed on that to. Its how our economy stays so strong."

Perhaps if we were willing to tax the poor, our budget deficit would be greatly reduced. However, nobody in Washington seems to be willing to do that. It's too unpopular. And if you know anything about US politics, it's that our politicians care more about getting re-elected than they do about actually solving the problems that they created.

Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" Perhaps if we were willing to tax the poor, our budget deficit would be greatly reduced. However, nobody ... [snip!] ... that our politicians care more about getting re-elected than they do about actually solving the problems that they created."

indeed.

great conversation, btw.

for me - when we all start speculating about precisely what needs to happen to stimulate the economy, i feel like there's so much of the system that's unaccounted for.

it reminds me of talking about consciousness in the brain.

we can focus on certain things: revenue, jobs, taxes... and formulate a model w/ these variables that gives us a supposed plus sign somewhere in the future, right?

but we're always missing a variable or two or just chaos itself (an earthquake in DC, the zombie apocolypse, you know...)

still, i read this entire thread, b/c it's full of decent lucid thoughts on a highly complex issue i doubt any of us fully understand in its entirety.

props!