Quoting Lady GooGoo™:" No, I'm saying to resist homosexual urges, not for MY benefit, for theirs, so that we can be together in Heaven."

I'm curious to know what you believe of salvation... as in what is required for salvation. Do you believe it is works, faith, or a mixture?

Would God damn a person who was a devout Christian, homosexual, resisted his feelings for years, and then decided to act on those feelings according to your perception of scriptures?

<blockquote><b>Quoting Fat-and-Happy:</b>" I'm curious to know what you believe of salvation... as in what is required for salvation. Do you believe ... [snip!] ... resisted his feelings for years, and then decided to act on those feelings according to your perception of scriptures?"</blockquote>



Yes. The God that I know, would.

Repentance is mandatory. Only God knows your heart. Slip ups are one thing but continually living in a sin that controls you is grounds for turning His back on you...just like you* turned your* back on Him, by continuing in your* sin.

God particularly despises homosexual acts, along with a few other things. It would hardly be fair for a person to go to Heaven, even though they kept on in their sin, while other people spend their entire lives trying to please Him.

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Fat-and-Happy:</b>" I'm curious to know what you believe of ... [snip!] ... to go to Heaven, even though they kept on in their sin, while other people spend their entire lives trying to please Him."

are the asterisks by the you's and your's indicate mean they are general? Or were you referring to me personally? I'm confused lol

I would assert that no one has spent their entire life trying please God... because they are human.

How do we know that God especially despises homosexuality? Is it because of how it is laid out in Leviticus as an abomination while other sins are not given the same connotation?

<blockquote><b>Quoting Fat-and-Happy:</b>" are the asterisks by the you's and your's indicate mean they are general? Or were you referring to me ... [snip!] ... Is it because of how it is laid out in Leviticus as an abomination while other sins are not given the same connotation?"</blockquote>



Yes. It was a general term and the overkill of the asterisk was to make sure that you knew that.

I have been guilty of not making my point clear enough in debates and I'm trying to curb that.  

I THINK that I know where you are going with this, so I'll address it accordingly.

Although Jesus does not mention homosexuality, specifically, He does specifically say that He didn't come to change the (Old Testament) law, but to fulfill it. In simple terms; the law still stands but He took our punishment FOR our transgressions against these laws.

I couple that with the fact that Jesus did, very much so, preach repentance. You cannot simultaneously repent and still live in your sin. You are suppose to turn away from it.

That is where I draw my conclusion from.

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Fat-and-Happy:</b>" are the asterisks by the you's and your's ... [snip!] ... repent and still live in your sin. You are suppose to turn away from it. That is where I draw my conclusion from."

lol yeah... that's what I though the asterisks were for but I had to make sure. I was preparing my, "I haven't turned my back on God, just the religious establishment known as church" spiel. I'm in a place where I'm still sorting everything out.  

I was just curious about your perspective of why homosexuality was one of the more severe sins. I didn't really have a strategy laid out. Debating religion, to me, is quite difficult because it all depends on interpretation and perspective. Somewhere in that Bible there is something that says if it is wrong in your individual eyes, then it is sin. So, how can we argue about perspective? It is to each man a very unique individual interpretation. There is so much of the Bible and so many ways to look at it. There are also so many personal experiences that shade our view of it.

There was a woman who, in her youth, was repeatedly raped by a man, if I remember right it was her father, while he quoted bible scriptures. I can't imagine that God, being loving, would condemn her if she was embittered against God. I don't know. Really, I don't. I have spent so much time pondering these things that I can't say I'm certain about anything... except for my personal experiences. Those are the only things that have kept me from completely abandoning my faith. I cannot deny those things because I lived them. But other people have lived totally different things. Idk... I think I'm rambling so I'll stop now.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Fat-and-Happy:</b>" lol yeah... that's what I though the asterisks were for but I had to make sure. I was preparing my, ... [snip!] ... because I lived them. But other people have lived totally different things. Idk... I think I'm rambling so I'll stop now."</blockquote>



I understand what you are saying and I also understand about different life experiences leading to a certain belief...or bitterness, even.

I think leaning on your own, personal experience is wise. It may be anecdotal to some, even most people, but honestly, it's powerful. I have always said that you* are your own, best testimony. I stand by that.

I really, REALLY try not to hold God responsible for man's actions. The Bible says that the meek shall inherit the earth. I stand on the fact that God will make right, the wrongs we've encountered while living.

And...you didn't ramble. I enjoyed the convo.

Quoting Fat-and-Happy:" I'm curious to know what you believe of salvation... as in what is required for salvation. Do you believe ... [snip!] ... resisted his feelings for years, and then decided to act on those feelings according to your perception of scriptures?"

If he didn't ask for forgiveness and change his ways, yes. The Bible says this very clearly.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

<blockquote><b>Quoting Fat-and-Happy:</b>" lol yeah... that's what I though the asterisks were for but I had to make sure. I was preparing my, ... [snip!] ... because I lived them. But other people have lived totally different things. Idk... I think I'm rambling so I'll stop now."</blockquote>


Religion aside, holding on to bitterness really will keep anyone from reaching the type of peace they desire. I come from a crazy family. The stories we have could be a lifetime series. The bitterness I held for what I experienced affected all of my relationships. Did it feel good to hate? Actually, yeah, it kinda did. It was its own kind of adrenaline rush. But it affected how I looked at the rest if the world, and I caused myself more hurt then anyone that actually hurt me. Her hurt doesn't just keep her from God (whether she wants to believe or is an atheist), it will keep her from knowing total peace in her life.

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Fat-and-Happy:</b>" lol yeah... that's what I though the asterisks ... [snip!] ... the fact that God will make right, the wrongs we've encountered while living. And...you didn't ramble. I enjoyed the convo."

I don't think that God should be held responsible for the actions of humans... I think people bring hell to earth through their actions. I think that is what the love and forgiveness from God is for, to remedy those things.

Quoting Lady GooGoo™:" If he didn't ask for forgiveness and change his ways, yes. The Bible says this very clearly. 1 Corinthians ... [snip!] ... homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." "

Once again, that is a letter written to the Corinthians by Paul. How do we know it was God's word or Paul's opinion? I do not believe that Paul thought that it would be added to a book called the Bible when he wrote it. I think his opinion certainly held true to Jewish tradition. I'm not convinced that Jesus didn't die for everyone regardless of belief or that God doesn't present himself to different people groups in a way that they can accept. That is just my personal opinion... today. It could easily be different tomorrow lol

I know that if you believe that the Bible is 100% God's word and was perfectly translated as it was passed down from generation to generation then what is written in it is how it is. I used to be there. I personally used the verse you just quoted to be a complete and utter smurf to one of my closest friends. But I understand how scary it is to imagine our closest family and friends not being with us after this life is over.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Fat-and-Happy:</b>" I don't think that God should be held responsible for the actions of humans... I think people bring ... [snip!] ... hell to earth through their actions. I think that is what the love and forgiveness from God is for, to remedy those things."</blockquote>




YES!!

Quoting Fat-and-Happy:" Once again, that is a letter written to the Corinthians by Paul. How do we know it was God's word or ... [snip!] ... friends. But I understand how scary it is to imagine our closest family and friends not being with us after this life is over."

I see what you're saying, but I also don't believe it would be in there if it wasn't meant to be.

Quoting Fat-and-Happy:" Once again, that is a letter written to the Corinthians by Paul. How do we know it was God's word or ... [snip!] ... friends. But I understand how scary it is to imagine our closest family and friends not being with us after this life is over."

I see what you're saying, but I also don't believe it would be in there if it wasn't meant to be. Everything happens for a reason. If it wasn't supposed to be In there... it wouldn't be.

Quoting Lady GooGoo™:" I see what you're saying, but I also don't believe it would be in there if it wasn't meant to be. Everything happens for a reason. If it wasn't supposed to be In there... it wouldn't be."

Are human beings not capable of disregarding God's wishes? I think that it is perfectly plausible that people have slanted the text in a way that favors their own opinion of it.

I mean... Why is the creation order in Genesis a certain way in chapter one and a different way in chapter two? Why is there one demon possessed man in the story about the pigs drowning themselves in one gospel, but two in another? If nothing else it calls into question the way the texts were translated, at least for me. One person told me that if I was being faithful then God would remedy the questions of the differences in my mind. That God put those discrepancies in there to test my faith and that if I was truly his I wouldn't see those discrepancies. I don't accept that explanation.

Quoting Fat-and-Happy:" Are human beings not capable of disregarding God's wishes? I think that it is perfectly plausible that ... [snip!] ... in there to test my faith and that if I was truly his I wouldn't see those discrepancies. I don't accept that explanation."

As I've said before, I don't know everything, obviously. As far as things being one way in one chapter and being different in another, I have no earthly idea, and perhaps that is in fact dependent on certain translation. I guess I'll know when I get to Heaven. Until then I'll just do my best to follow what I feel God wants me to do and walk in the truth as best as I know how for now. It's not going to shake my faith.