re: Some reasons not to circumcise

Quoting Christine_T:" Yes some men don't let it bother them but most men do not know what they have lost. If all men knew what they had lost then most would be bothered by it. Not all, but most."

And your proof of that is....? Do you have any non-biased, real research to show that most men would be bothered by this information?

Quoting LeTs*StArT*a*RiOt!:" And your proof of that is....? Do you have any non-biased, real research to show that most men would be bothered by this information?"

i know you didnt quote me and i dont have any proof for what the PP said, but DH was pro circ and always said he wanted to get our boys done if we had any etc.
he wasnt bothered by his circ and just figured thats how its supposed to be.
now that he has done his research he is pissed that he got circed now.
he says he feels like he missed out on something and that some of the issues he has now as a grown man might be explained by getting circ'ed he will never know though.

Quoting Christine_T:" Yes some men don't let it bother them but most men do not know what they have lost. If all men knew what they had lost then most would be bothered by it. Not all, but most."

Whatever. It's not like foreskin holds some magical power that's going to make or break them.  

Like I said before, I've dated cut and un-cut guys. Having foreskin did NOT make them better lovers.

Besides, if the author is still in-tact, how could he possibly know what it's like to be a circumcised man?

<blockquote><b>Quoting Christine_T:</b>" <blockquote><b>Quoting loser mom:</b>" Mine either!   IDK, the author of the article ... [snip!] ... men don't know what they have lost because they have not experienced a foreskin. That opportunity was taken away from them."</blockquote>




Why are you so obsessed with weenies?

Quoting Aria Dawn's mommy:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Christine_T:</b>" <blockquote><b>Quoting loser mom:</b>" ... [snip!] ... a foreskin. That opportunity was taken away from them."</blockquote> Why are you so obsessed with weenies?"

 

Quoting Fusselinchen -4:" i know you didnt quote me and i dont have any proof for what the PP said, but DH was pro circ and ... [snip!] ... and that some of the issues he has now as a grown man might be explained by getting circ'ed he will never know though."

Yeah but that's one case. There are plenty of other men who do know all about it and just don't care. My SO doesn't care. It hasn't affected him, and he doesn't give a smurf. So the weiner obsessed chick who keeps saying 'many' and 'all' and 'most' like she's a psychiatrist who's done a ton of research? Yeah, no.   She's making a lot of generalized, broad assumptions that are possibly false in a LOT of cases.

Quoting LeTs*StArT*a*RiOt!:" And your proof of that is....? Do you have any non-biased, real research to show that most men would be bothered by this information?"

http://www.norm-uk.org/circumcision_unhappy.html

http://foreskin-restoration.net/forum/

So I realize there's a lot of debate circling the psychological effects of having the foreskin removed.. And I can't say I've ever met a man who wished his parents did or didn't remove his foreskin. I don't think they really dwell on it, from what I've noticed in my group of friends/family.

But on the physical side of it, there are actually reports out that show that instances of HIV, HPV, other STD/STIs, UTIs, and cancers are greatly reduced in circumcised men. It also decreases chance of cervical cancer in women whose partners are circumcised.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision


Adverse effects


Neonatal circumcision is considered to be generally safe when it is done by an experienced practitioner. The most common acute complications are bleeding, infection and the removal of either too much or too little foreskin. These three complications occur in less than 1% of procedures, and make up the vast majority of all circumcision complications. A specific complication rate is difficult to determine due to scant data on complications, and inconsistencies in how a "complication" is classified. Complication rates are greater when the procedure is performed by an inexperienced operator, in unsterile conditions, or when the child is at an older age.
Significant acute complications happen rarely, occurring only in about 1 in 500 newborn procedures in the United States. Severe to catastrophic complications are so rare that they are reported only as individual case reports. Death is rare, with an estimated death rate of 1 infant in 500,000.
Circumcision does not appear to have a negative impact on the sensitivity of the penis, sexual function or sexual satisfaction.


Instances of complications from having circumcision done are about as common as any other procedure you may have done in your lifetime. And I'm actually coming across more and more mothers who say now that their intact male children are getting older, they're medically required to remove his foreskin because it's medically affecting his penis.


It all comes down to the decision of the parents involved. I have no judgments towards anyone who does or doesn't circumcise. I just wanted to point out that there is evidence on the other side of the fence and I urge ANY parent who is contemplating whether or not to circumcise their child to research ALL the facts on BOTH sides of the issue before making their decisions.

Quoting Christine_T:" http://www.norm-uk.org/circumcision_unhappy.html http://foreskin-restoration.net/forum/"

Yeah, neither of those are research.  

Quoting Blair Waldorf (SuperKink):" So I realize there's a lot of debate circling the psychological effects of having the foreskin removed.. ... [snip!] ... whether or not to circumcise their child to research ALL the facts on BOTH sides of the issue before making their decisions."

The problem with that research is that in never compares a truly intact culture - like Finland where the rates of all those illnesses are lower than in the US. STI's are a lifestyle issue, not a foreskin issue. There is also plenty of evidence that refutes any claim that removing the foreskin has a positive impact on long term health & HIV status.

A number of studies have actually shown higher infection rates male to female with circ - this one shows that in the circed HIV positive men at 24 months their transmission to female partner was a rate of 21% & in intact men with female partner transmission was 13%. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2809%2960998-3/abstract
A study in Puerto Rico that purely looks at randomized men that were already circed, not circed as part of a study & in that scenario the circed men had higher infection rates across the board in every category: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2012.02871.x/abstract

And since at least in certain portions of Africa men seem to think circ prevents HIV & aren't using ANY safe sex practices any longer - I think we shall see a spike in HIV in Africa sadly, regardless : http://www.malawivoice.com/2012/10/31/circumcised-men-on-sex-spree-they-think-they-are-immune-to-hiv-18495/
We are also seeing men attacked & forcibly circed against their will due to misinformation there: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/06/uganda-male-circumcision-campaign-goes-horribly-wrong/53803/

And despite us knowing about this for ages - reuse of needles is a huge culprit for HIV in Africa: http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/New-AIDS-suspect-Researchers-say-reuse-of-2749128.php
and not street drug use - use in clinics after throwing them in a bleach bucket bath they are being reused.   It is still common practice & produces new infections all.the.time.

And then this USAID report: http://www.measuredhs.com/pubs/pdf/CR22/CR22.pdf
(hopefully the link works as I can only find it in PDF) it says: "There appears no clear pattern of association between male circumcision and HIV prevalence. In 8 of 18 countries with data, HIV prevalence is lower among circumcised men, while in the remaining 10 countries HIV prevalence is higher among circumcised men."
(If you don't know who USAID is: USAID is the U.S. Agency for International Development. It is an independent agency that provides economic, development and humanitarian assistance around the world in support of the foreign policy goals of the United States.)




Sooooooooo it really depends on which studies you read......

<blockquote><b>Quoting Blair Waldorf (SuperKink):</b>" So I realize there's a lot of debate circling the psychological effects of having the foreskin removed.. ... [snip!] ... whether or not to circumcise their child to research ALL the facts on BOTH sides of the issue before making their decisions."</blockquote>



I actually dealed with the supposed protective benefits of circumcision. In the first post. You should read the critiques of the aap policy statement I posted.

As for you coming across more and more parents who have to have it done later, I dealed with that also in my first post.

I would not urge people to see both sides because they are then more likely to get worried that there child is at serious risk if they don't get circumcised, which is a complete myth.

Bump in case anyone else is interested.