re: So, tell me again how owning guns reduces gun violence...

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Barfy McVomitron:</b>" it's still the gov't deciding who can ... [snip!] ... be allowed to have the same rights to hospital visitation, wills, child custody, divorce, child support, alimony and tge like"

(this is a good debate, I'm enjoying discussing this with you)
anywho, to outlaw biracial marriage (marriage not being a civil right and all) would be extremely unjust. when both/all adults are consenting then it shouldn't be anyone's concerns as to what their genes are. (I'm pro plural marriage as well). it's hard for me to draw a line to decide which adults are ok to marry, and which aren't. if it's a matter of religion, well most married couples I know are atheists. so the religion debate doesn't work. marriage is a spiritual commitment to your partner. so many people get divorced and act like marriage is a joke. I'm not sure why it'd be ok for them to marry and everyone be ok if they divorced, but a homosexual couple that does take the commitment seriously are placed lower than these serial marry- ers who make it a joke to say I do

Catholic churches say no to couples all the time. if homosexuals got married at a courthouse, would that be suitable? if so, than all non religious people should just go there too.

Quoting Barfy McVomitron:" Catholic churches say no to couples all the time. if homosexuals got married at a courthouse, would that be suitable? if so, than all non religious people should just go there too."

The only gay people I know who would want to get married in a church are the ones who go to a 'gay friendly' church, and they'll just want to get married in their church. This whole 'churches will have to marry them' argument is crap, most will get married in Vegas, or at home, or a courthouse, or at the beach. Its ridiculous to think that gay couples will be bashing down the doors of conservative churches to get married. It didn't happen in any other country that allows gay marriage ... so why the hell would it happen there?

Quoting Destiel:" The only gay people I know who would want to get married in a church are the ones who go to a 'gay friendly' ... [snip!] ... to get married. It didn't happen in any other country that allows gay marriage ... so why the hell would it happen there?"

lol right. the argument shouldn't be about if they should be allowed to get married based on religion. if it were based on that, then which religion would be the determiner? Buddhists? Muslims? Christians? I'm not sure why religion is even a factor.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Barfy McVomitron:</b>" Catholic churches say no to couples all the time. if homosexuals got married at a courthouse, would that be suitable? if so, than all non religious people should just go there too."</blockquote>




Well, my PERSONAL opinion is that marriage, when done in a church, is religious in nature and marriage, just in the "lawful" sense is defined by government. When you get legally married, it is a contract between you, your spouse AND the government. Different (civil) laws apply to people, when they get married (taxes, for example ).

I feel like civil unions should be the only type of union offered by the government. It is absent of anything religious and is not centered on God. If you want to get "married" tben a church is the right place.

I really think they are two different things. Government needs to speak for government and not include the church in civil matters.

I don't know if that made sense...but it did in my head.

I'm not against gay rights. I'm against gay MARRIAGE, labeled as such, for all of the reasons I have stated.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Destiel:</b>" The only gay people I know who would want to get married in a church are the ones who go to a 'gay friendly' ... [snip!] ... to get married. It didn't happen in any other country that allows gay marriage ... so why the hell would it happen there?"</blockquote>



As soon as I'm not on my phone, I'll post links to what I am talking about.

I think the church should be left out of the equation, completely.

Civil unions for ALL. If it's merely legal protection and rights that these couples are looking for, then that's the fairest way.

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Barfy McVomitron:</b>" Catholic churches say no to couples all ... [snip!] ... did in my head. I'm not against gay rights. I'm against gay MARRIAGE, labeled as such, for all of the reasons I have stated."

I see what you mean. I got married in the eyes of God which is why I haven't divorced my husband. I made a promise to God that I'd be faithful to him until the day death parts us. personally, I don't like that people have made it a joke and get married for smurfs and giggles then divorce a couple years later. it's supposed to be a lifelong commitment ended only by death. I don't think people jump into divorce too quickly, I feel they jump into marriage too quickly. I got married too quickly and several times wanted to do what is easiest, divorce him. but what made me not is my promise to God. those are my religious views on it...but other people shouldn't marry based on what I think is right or wrong. we're all sinners, being gay doesn't outrank any other (although I personally don't see why it would be a sin). if one group of "sinners" can marry, I feel all "sinners" should be allowed.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Barfy McVomitron:</b>" I see what you mean. I got married in the eyes of God which is why I haven't divorced my husband. I ... [snip!] ... I personally don't see why it would be a sin). if one group of "sinners" can marry, I feel all "sinners" should be allowed."</blockquote>



Maybe so. I cannot pretend to know the heart of God. I just feel like separating religious marriage from civil marriage is what it should be all about.

You are right in that your promise was NOT to our government, but to God. That's not the case with most (which is why the divorce rate is so high).

Leaving the church completely out of this whole debate is what is most fair and "balanced", if you will.

Government's job is to offer freedom and fairness to all.

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Destiel:</b>" The only gay people I know who would want to ... [snip!] ... unions for ALL. If it's merely legal protection and rights that these couples are looking for, then that's the fairest way."

So you think that nobody should be allowed to get married in a church? I am so confused.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Barfy McVomitron:</b>" I see what you mean. I got married in the eyes of God which is why I haven't divorced my husband. I ... [snip!] ... I personally don't see why it would be a sin). if one group of "sinners" can marry, I feel all "sinners" should be allowed."</blockquote>




when i get married it will be religious ... however im not a Christian and it will be my religion. Im confused as to whether mine should be religious or civil .... especially since my religion is thousands of years older than Christianity and practiced marriage

Quoting Destiel:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Barfy McVomitron:</b>" I see what you mean. I got married in ... [snip!] ... be religious or civil .... especially since my religion is thousands of years older than Christianity and practiced marriage"

I think adding a spiritual aspect does make a marriage more..hmm, I don't want to use the word meaningful... maybe deep? I'm not sure. I think it just adds to it. I think adding the religious part to yours will be something you'll be happy with afterwards.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Stfu Shirley:</b>" So you think that nobody should be allowed to get married in a church? I am so confused."</blockquote>


I'm sorry. I really am trying to explain it the best I know how.

People usually have church weddings for religious reasons (There are exceptions, I know.) Fact is, to be married in JUST a church, does not mean that the government recognizes that marriage. In fact, they don't. You MUST file a document, that is recorded by the city/county/state. It's a LEGAL contract between the couple AND the government.

If someone wants to marry in the church, let them. That's fine. They are not going to be LEGALLY married, though. God may recognize them as married, but the state does not.

The government recognizes civil unions...they just happen to call it MARRIAGE.

The government is overseeing civil unions, not marriage. They are different.

The problem, as I see it is NOT going to remedy if we keep going and arguing pointless points (as a society, I mean).

The religious feel you are taking something from them and the gay community feels that they are being kept from something. Government could change this by offering something to one and not taking away from the other.

Civil unions for EVERYONE but allowing marriage, as well, to those who are religious, would be the compromise.

Neither side wants to compromise. Government WANTS us fighting about this...or it would already be settled.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Destiel:</b>" <blockquote><b>Quoting Barfy McVomitron:</b>" I see what you mean. I got married in ... [snip!] ... be religious or civil .... especially since my religion is thousands of years older than Christianity and practiced marriage"</blockquote>


Freedom of religion is just that; FREEDOM to choose ANY religion and practice it (doing harm to none).

The government should ONLY recognize your union as "civil". They shouldn't call it a marriage.

When you separate the word "marriage" from government, there is a compromise just staring you in the face. People just have to be willing.

I don't fully understand. The term "marriage" is simply an evolved form of the Sanskrit word "marya". It's been in use far longer than Christianity has been a prevalent religion.

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Stfu Shirley:</b>" So you think that nobody should be allowed ... [snip!] ... the compromise. Neither side wants to compromise. Government WANTS us fighting about this...or it would already be settled."

I'm married, so I am well aware of all of that legal stuff.
But there are some religions that don't oppose gay marriage. So...just because your religion does*, then nobody else should be able to use the term?