History of abortion in the U.S.

Please don't turn this into a moral d&d, I am putting it in this forum for the "discuss" more than the "debate."

We all know that Roe v Wade changed the abortion laws in this country. We also know that before abortion became legal, there were lots of women who died after or as a result of illegal abortions gone wrong.

In the 1920's there was a lot of controversy over birth control and abortion, and some women were arrested for promoting information about bc through the mail. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, google Margaret Sanger.

There are reports of medical colleges and hospitals in the 1950's that kept aborted fetuses in jars, for medical research. So, where do you think they came from? Abortion wasn't legal, obviously.

What I want to know is, do you think that in the 1920's, when there was a lot of conversation about abortion for the first time (and eugenics, but that's kind of a tangent for another time), do you think that there might have been medical colleges or learning hospitals that quietly performed abortions? And if not, how did the medical field learn how perform the procedure safely?

This is all really personal for me and I am trying to pick my way through all my various conspiracy theories. I just want to know what you guys think. I don't really know anything about the medical field, or how they learned new things 100 years ago.

Those "aborted fetus in jars" could have been the products of miscarriage. And yes, there have always been secret, underground pro-choice operators- though in those times it would have been life threatening to be so out in the open…

I would imagine they learned how to perform safe abortions through whatever method they used back then to remove products of conception after a miscarriage. It could also be very possible that the fetuses they kept in jars were from miscarriage due to incompetent cervix, pPROM etc. This is all just speculation on my part though.

Yes, I'm sure that abortions were performed in the name of research. The doctors probably just cited them as "medically necessary" to willing participants and kept things hush hush. It probably helped the women getting abortions, when at a time when there was such a social stigma about abortion, they could have a doctor back them up about it not being elective, kwim?
Or, and this is just my sinister way of thinking, I wouldn't be surprised if they were performed on the less than competent, like mentally ill patients, etc...

I would think it would be a combination of late term spontaneous losses as well as illegal abortions being performed that would account for the collection of fetus'.

This is my assumption, I have no facts specifically, but based on other instances of illegal procedures and the history of the medical profession and how it has progressed over history lead me to believe this.

Quoting StinkyPossumLover!:" Those "aborted fetus in jars" could have been the products of miscarriage. And yes, there have always ... [snip!] ... secret, underground pro-choice operators- though in those times it would have been life threatening to be so out in the open…"

or maybe from women who had passed and were pregnant, was my thought.

abortions are performed all over the world and have been for probably thousands of years. I watched a show about an african tribe and how the woman aborted her baby becuase they couldnt afford another mouth to feed.
and she did...

and im sure they were doing experiements and stuff. look at the nazis and stuff, they performed abortions on pregnant women in the camps and stuff

Quoting Amelia Margaret:" I would imagine they learned how to perform safe abortions through whatever method they used back then ... [snip!] ... they kept in jars were from miscarriage due to incompetent cervix, pPROM etc. This is all just speculation on my part though."

I imagine the method of extracting the fetus would the same in both an abortion and a miscarriage. But after a miscarriage the fetus is already dead. They would have had to investigate ways to end the fetus' life before removal.

I know some of the jars were the product of abortion, which is pretty obvious from the description. I don't want to get too graphic here.

It makes sense that they would learn a lot from treating patients who had suffered miscarriages, and patients who died after botched abortions. But you can't just, as a doctor, say, "Well I see what went wrong here, so now I know all about how to do it."

I mean, they must have practiced on people, right? So...who did they practice on, and when did they start?

Abortion has been around for centuries. There are all kinds of herbs and techniques that people used. But they weren't doctors, and it wasn't sterile and medical. So by the time it became something that was considered safe and legal, how had the doctors become experts?

Quoting Stfu Shirley:" I know some of the jars were the product of abortion, which is pretty obvious from the description. I ... [snip!] ... sterile and medical. So by the time it became something that was considered safe and legal, how had the doctors become experts?"

trial and error. just like everything medical now a day. im sure the practiced.. idk maybe on women prisoners? or mental patients? it wouldnt surprise me..

im sure there was ways they got their hands on pregnant women to practice.

Quoting A is Me:" I wouldn't be surprised if they were performed on the less than competent, like mentally ill patients, etc..."

There was a lot of talk about eugenics in the 1920's. It was, to oversimplify, the idea that only wealthy, healthy white people should be encouraged to reproduce and there were "eugenics programs" for poor and non-white people. This was right here in America too, that Nazi stuff didn't seem so absurd until millions of people were being murdered over it.

So whoever made the point about WWII and the Nazis, good thinking. As much as I hate to say it, I'm sure the medical industry made huge strides during that time. Ugh, so gross.

And of course we're all speculating. Last summer I contacted every school, museum, and historian who I thought could possibly have any information about this and they all slammed their doors in my face. If anybody still knows, they're not going to discuss it.

My great grandmother died after a botched abortion in 1925. She died in the only Women's Medical College in America at that time. When she was taken to the hospital, she was well enough to stand at the window and wave goodbye to her kids, which makes me wonder if it wasn't actually a homemade or back-alley situation. They lived in poverty and it was at least her 8th pregnancy. I'll never know what happened, but I'll always wonder.

Quoting A is Me:" I imagine the method of extracting the fetus would the same in both an abortion and a miscarriage. But ... [snip!] ... after a miscarriage the fetus is already dead. They would have had to investigate ways to end the fetus' life before removal."

That probably wasn't a concern back then.  

I honestly think they learned by trial and error, but I agree with the others. As far as babies in jars, I believe those may have been miscarriages/stillbirths, etc... which could have actually taught them a lot about sizes and anatomy, helping shape the way they were performed.

Quoting Stfu Shirley:" There was a lot of talk about eugenics in the 1920's. It was, to oversimplify, the idea that only wealthy, ... [snip!] ... situation. They lived in poverty and it was at least her 8th pregnancy. I'll never know what happened, but I'll always wonder."

oh wow. thats so sad. im sorry.

im sure lots of people were forced into abortion back then. nothing surprises me anymore

The procedure for 1st and second trimester abortions are the same as for D&C and D&E. that's how they practiced it. For later abortions I'm not sure. I know with the non banned partial birth abortions the baby's head was delivered the same as it would have been commonly done back then (with forceps) but the procedure changes from there because obviously if they proceeded the child would be born alive.

Quoting Ellie.:" I honestly think they learned by trial and error, but I agree with the others. As far as babies in jars, ... [snip!] ... etc... which could have actually taught them a lot about sizes and anatomy, helping shape the way they were performed."

Well I am sure that they learned a lot about how NOT to do an abortion that way too. I'm talking about fetuses in jars, with various instruments of abortion still in them. Really sorry if that's too graphic. I know BG is a tmi-friendly site, but this is beyond tmi and into full-blown horrifying for a lot of people. I live a few hours away from the Mutter Museum, and I believe they have a collection. I could be wrong. Once I told them why I wanted to know, they stopped talking to me.