Help please!

Ok so I have a 5 year old son who does not listen at all, I try to ask him nicely and the I try to use my stern voice and it does not work at all he insists on not listening he will run away from me constantly chuck tanties he throws things and stomps the works he always talks back it is driving me insane I have tried taking things off him that I know he loves and all he does it scream at the top of his lungs help please I am sick of dealing with this rotten behaviour 24/7 also I should add he has no medical issues he has been tested

I have a degree in child development and am working on my BA. Read Jane nelsen's positive discipline. It's an easy read and will really point you in an evidence- based healthy direction. I strongly encourage you to do is ASAP. It can be very life changing.

How many times do you tell him to do something before you punish him?
What is his punishment?

I ask him nicely 3 times around then he will backchat and tell me no and tell me what to do then I ask him in my stern voice and tell him of he does not listen he will go in the naughty corner he still refuses after about 10 or so mins when I can get him I explain what he did wrong and then put him in the corner for 5 mins

<blockquote><b>Quoting Carly2013:</b>" I ask him nicely 3 times around then he will backchat and tell me no and tell me what to do then I ask ... [snip!] ... refuses after about 10 or so mins when I can get him I explain what he did wrong and then put him in the corner for 5 mins"</blockquote>


I do:

Ask once.
Tell once.
Immediate time out/corner.
Talk to him about why and what he needs to do.
Ask once.

Repeat until he obeys!

My 3 year old does amazing with this routine.

When he does what i ask the first time and does it politely we cheer and high five and he gets "good points" and if he is good all day he gets a Popsicle after dinner (all fruit natural ones he loves!)

Quoting Carly2013:" I ask him nicely 3 times around then he will backchat and tell me no and tell me what to do then I ask ... [snip!] ... refuses after about 10 or so mins when I can get him I explain what he did wrong and then put him in the corner for 5 mins"

I'm guessing he doesn't take you seriously....you give him 4 chances to disobey you in a row and then he only has to sit in a corner for 10 minutes.

Tell him ONE time, if he doesn't do it, and you look at him like you mean business, and he doesn't listen....

send him to his room. Make him sit in the middle of his bed and touch nothing. Make him sit in there alone for a while so he can think about what he's done, and check on him to make sure he's not playing with his toys.

If it's after dinner time, send him to bed. No TV, no toys, no books. Bed.

Make him write down what he's done wrong 5 times. Don't let him get up until he's finished.

Every time he doesn't listen, take something away, and he can only have it back when he starts to listen on a regular basis.

He needs to understand punishment and punishment needs to be something that he DOES NOT WANT....sitting in a corner for 10 minutes isn't going to teach him a lesson, but taking things away and having to earn them back, will.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Red Bottom:</b>" I'm guessing he doesn't take you seriously....you give him 4 chances to disobey you in a row and then ... [snip!] ... in a corner for 10 minutes isn't going to teach him a lesson, but taking things away and having to earn them back, will. "</blockquote>

I take things from my son a lot. Time outs just weren't enough. Now he gets a time out for the first rudeness or not listening and if he keeps not listening he loses toys, park time, TV time, treats, or some such. I swear if I say "do you want to lose your trains?" His ears magically start working again. Sometimes I take them for an hour, sometimes a day. I'm consistent enough he can guess his punishment before I say it now.

Quoting P Pickle Pants:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Red Bottom:</b>" I'm guessing he doesn't take you seriously....you ... [snip!] ... Sometimes I take them for an hour, sometimes a day. I'm consistent enough he can guess his punishment before I say it now."

I used to be terrible with discipline and because of that, he was having behavior problems. Once I started this plan, he has been doing better in school, his manners are great, and I can't even believe he's the same child that was having behavioral problems.

First thing is, don't ask. Everything is matter of fact: don't ask him to put something away. Instead, "oh this doesn't belong here, it goes in your room." Then put it in his hand and go with him to his room. We get too hung up on being in control that we forget that we don't want them to listen without thinking, or feeling autonomous. Punishment makes children feel negatively. If we want children to do better, they need to feel better. This is true with adults, and also very true for children. When your child finally does what you want because you've exhausted him and yourself with punishing and asking and lecturing, it's because he has given up. Instead of having our children give up, I think we can all agree we want them to lean that we want our children to know and embrace the responsibilities of life.

Quoting Trisa Daniel:" First thing is, don't ask. Everything is matter of fact: don't ask him to put something away. Instead, ... [snip!] ... up, I think we can all agree we want them to lean that we want our children to know and embrace the responsibilities of life."

Did you really just say not to punish children for bad behavior?  

Yes I did. To discipline means to teach. Not to punish. And bad behavior is our perception of a child not knowing how to express themselves in a way we find acceptable. What may seem like defiance to us can really just be a child who has a strong will. Do we want to break this child's will so that he gives up on his own desires? No, because we want our children to be tenacious and persistent adults. And respect is not punished into someone but earned. When disciplining children, it's important to ask how we would want to be treated. And no, I would not want to be punished because I don't have the skills to handle myself better. I would want to be taught how to be responsible and kind.

Quoting Trisa Daniel:" Yes I did. To discipline means to teach. Not to punish. And bad behavior is our perception of a child ... [snip!] ... be punished because I don't have the skills to handle myself better. I would want to be taught how to be responsible and kind."

Just to further the punishment discussion.

Do you not think bad employees should be fired?
Do you not believe in jails for criminals?
Do you not believe in bad grades for bad work?

A bad grade isn't a punishment. And life has consequences. Children know that they earn the grade they get. That is something they know ahead of time, becaus it's the way our school systems work. The legal system is in place to make our society safe. When old enough, we can make agreements with children such as when your toys aren't picked up, you can't go out and play. This does not shame them, or label them as naughty or bad. If they don't want to keep the agreement then they may feel negatively, but it's not because of extrinsic forces, it's intrinsic. This type of motivation is far healthier. Do we want our children to not break the law for fear of going to jail or because they truely know that it is morally wrong?

And the workplace is a great example of this whole thing. If an employee were stealing the. That would be grounds for termination the first time because there is no excuse for not knowing better. But if an employee is doing something wrong when it comes to something that is teachable, then no why punish when you can teach your employee how to do it right? Yelling and putting them down or cutting hours isn't going to make them want to do better. It makes us want to quit.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Trisa Daniel:</b>" And the workplace is a great example of this whole thing. If an employee were stealing the. That would ... [snip!] ... it right? Yelling and putting them down or cutting hours isn't going to make them want to do better. It makes us want to quit."</blockquote>


I don't yell at or insult my son. But I do punish him. We always discuss his punishment and he at age 3 will say "I went in time out because I hit the dog with a car. If I hit him again, mommy will take the car. It is bad to hit him because it hurts him and scares him and its not nice to hurt our friends"

I think he's learning rather nicely! But punishment, when given constructively and without yelling or insulting can be useful, especially when paired with rewards for good behavior!

And when I was an employee and I didn't know how to do my job I earned a lower training wage, was told to wear a "trainee" apron (different than the experienced workers), and I had to be with an experienced employee. If I did something incorrect I was told no, to fix it, and if I had refused to fix bit if have been terminated.

I don't punish my child for doing things INCORRECTLY, I punish him for doing things that are WRONG. If he puts away his toys in the wrong place I tell him its not right and tell him where they go and that he needs to move them. If he ignores me or becomes obstinate I punish him. If he says "can I keep them there because _____" (showing he was listening and knows what he's supposed to do) I listen, explain why things have to be out away where they go, then tell him the consequence of not putting them away (they get lost or stepped on and broken) and tell him he has a choice to put them up or I take them for a day because he is not treating his toys with care so they won't break. He invariably chooses to put them away.

If he refuses to listen and ignores my "time to clean up the toys" statement or tells me no or throws a fit, I put him in time out for the outburst. Then I ask why he was in time out and he'll say "i didn't listen and I yelled and cried instead"---theni say "are you ready to listen now?" And I'll explain what I want him to do. And I'll tell him "you clean. All the toys you don't put away before [time on clock] will go in Mommy's bucket and I keep them til tomorrow. If you put them away without a fit, I will read you four books instead of 3." And he starts the race! If he can't finish in time, he will look at the clock and say "please help me!" And if he has been trying ill help him and we'll make it more of a game, etc.


It's about him knowing he had the CHOICE to be good and get rewards or be bad and lose privileges or toys or play time. Just like I'd lose wages at a job or lose promotions or not make deadlines and lose bonuses or perks and benefits if I didn't do my job. EVERY time he is in trouble I explain why, how his behavior is harmful, what he can do better, then I help him remember how to do it correctly and remind him of the rewards of good behavior!

I NEVER EVER EVER yell at or insult him and how DARE you imply that gentle discipline has broken his spirit. My child is not afraid of me and never has been, he knows right from wrong, and he knows WHY those behaviors are right or wrong and the consequences for those behaviors. The real world has negative consequences and positive ones. I use both, concentrating on explanation of the WHY and constant reminders and consistent consequences ---and I have the smartest, most outgoing, polite, considerate, thoughtful, and creative child I have ever known. If I ask if he wants cereal and he says "yes please:ma'am" or "no thank you" and helps me clean without being asked and puts his dishes in the sink and his laundry in his hamper and always has a clean room before bedtime and holds doors and says excuse me and if someone is crying he wants to help them. He is conscious of not saying rude things and hurting others because it hurts them, not JUST because he will get in trouble.

So get off your judge mental high horse and learn how to appropriately discipline in a real world because the world does punish and your child will have to learn not to let small punishments crush them and to take them and move forward because they were earned and given for a reason.