Gender Identity

Two little boys and the different approaches their families took:
Please listen to the NPR piece before you comment, or at least read the article.



Related: Dana, sponsor of the blogging for GLBT Day, wrote about the NPR piece at Mombian.
Diana,a transgender activist, also posteda thorough write-up of the NPR piece.
Read Sarah Hoffman’s essay from Cookie magazine,The Pink Dress.A quick read, but one with less depth than the NPR piece.
Watch Boys Don’t Cry. Hillary Swank gives an outstanding performance as Brandon Teena in the true-life drama. Brandon was a charming teenage boy who was killed when people in his small town realized he was actually a she.

Also, check out X: A Fabulous Children's Story a story is in the book Stories for Free Children.


My Personal Opinion:

I was saddened by what Bradley was going through at the hands of Dr. Zucker. It seemed to me that all he learned was to keep secrets from his parents, and his mother seemed to know this. I would hate for my child to feel the most uncomfortable with him or herself around me. I grew up with a mother who was always very supportive of what I wanted to do including from starting school early at four and leaving early (I graduated with my class but actually stopped attending many pointless classes and just met with teachers) to becoming a vegetarian and later a vegan. I always felt I had someone behind me, backing me, with or against the rest of the world. That is what I want to be for my child, a true support. This discussion sparked a lot of thoughts I had never had before about my child (I am pregnant with my first but don’t know the gender) and also new discussion with my partner. He seemed upset by what was happening with Bradley too, saying it was extreme. When asked about his own son doing these things, however, he seemed unsure. He said perhaps in that situation we should go to a therapist to see if it was a gender identity issue or if our little boy simply liked frilly and pink things. I disagreed, I saw it as something very harmless, and besides, whatever that therapists personal beliefs are, are we just going to trust that they know best? Obviously there were two polar opposite opinions from the doctors in the NPR story.
When I asked Joey if our little girl liked to wear overalls and throw a ball around, would he want to take her to a therapist, the answer was an obvious no. In fact, he thinks it strange that we teach little girls to care for baby dolls and play in kitchenettes, like we are training them so early. He says why should his two year old have to take care of a doll that wets? She should learn to take care of herself first. First of all, I think the disparity is that the stigma is far greater in the case of little boys who act like little girls than little girls who act like little boys. How many “tom boys” have we all known? It never seems to be an issue.
On another level, I seem to have a different idea about what makes a boy a boy and what makes a girl a girl. Pink is for girls and blue is for boys? Who decided that? My favorite color was always blue growing up. No one minded, but if I was a boy who loved pink, would everyone have freaked out? These things are absolutely manufactured. To those religious people who say that it is “unnatural” or “against God” I almost want to laugh. There are no tea sets or barbie dolls in nature. At the dawn of man pink wasn’t considered the color for only girls. There was a time where men wore wigs, a time when they wore dresses, and what about kilts? A child has no knowledge of these things. Who says boys are supposed to play with trucks and mock flatulence? So, I say because a little child, regardless of gender, happens to look at something shiny and frilly and wants to wear it or play with it, we shouldn’t automatically think this a big deal. It’s really a non-issue. The only thing to worry about is teasing. That’s hard for the parent and child but ultimately it is societies failing, not your child’s.
If you freak out about a little boy that plays with barbies, I think you are more likely to cause some identity and sexuality issues. Making your little boy hate the part of him that is effeminate (as all boys have some feminine traits and all girls have some masculine) will only make him dwell on that part of himself more.
And, if by chance, the little boy that plays with dolls does turn out to be trans-gender or trans-sexual or homosexual, that would be okay with me but it would probably take some serious engendering of confidence in that child. So, that is what we should be focusing on, I think, strength of character, support, and confidence. But even if you may have some issues with a trans-gender child, every parent shouldn’t freak out because their son plays with something girly. After all, whose to say which toys or clothes are girly and which are boyish? Does that really have any bearing on a childs identity or sexuality? I think those issues can really be addressed later. For now, let the children play!



Oh, and I have to say that I loved “X: A Fabulous Child’s Story.”
My family is so concerned now about what my child will be since we have chosen to be suprised. They don’t know how to treat it, just like X, and it’s not even born yet. My grandmother wants to sew a blanket for her grandchild but doesn’t know whether to put a little girl in a dress or a little boy in overalls on it. I told my grandmother that blue can be for girls too and that if she makes a blanket with a little girl on it my little boy would love it just as much because it would be from her. She looked scandalized and spoke directly to my belly saying “don’t worry, granny will take care of you.” As if I wouldn’t, the unfit parent that I was, suggesting that my little girl might like blue or my little boy might like the design of the girl on his blanket.
Is gender really as important as we make it? Is that the only way we can define ourselves? Or can we define ourselves as human beings?



What would you do if your little boy wanted to play with barbies and wear dresses? What would you do if your little girl wanted to wear overalls and play with trucks? Why?

I"m just posting so that I can find this later and give you an intelligent response when I have the time ...It looks like an intersting thread!  

theres so many links. you want us to read them all? or are there 2 links that specify everything overall?

What would you do if your little boy wanted to play with barbies and wear dresses? Buy him as many frilly dress and Barbies as we could safely afford and have one hell of a good time playing with him. His father played with Pretty Little Ponies and wore dresses when he was young thanks to two older sisters, and he has no issue with transgendered or homosexual people whatsoever and would be fully supportive of whatever Simon decided, as would I. It's time to let go of absurd gender stereotypes, in my opinion.

What would you do if your little girl wanted to wear overalls and play with trucks? Why? I would sigh and worry. Because that's exactly how I was, and damn did I turn out to be a handful.   Seriously though, if I have a daughter in the future I would encourage her to wear whatever she wanted and play with what she wanted. I'd encourage her to participate in unisex sports, the same as my son.

"What would you do if your little boy wanted to play with barbies and wear dresses? What would you do if your little girl wanted to wear overalls and play with trucks? Why?'

I wore overalls and played with trucks. Now all grown up I'm going to school to drive trucks and I still wear overalls, hahaha. I would love it if my daughter did those things, because thats all I know. I'm in trouble if she decides to be a girly girl.

As for my son, I wouldn't care, but my husband would not let him play with dolls or dress in dresses.

I think its better to embrace what your child wants rather then brainwashing them to think that they're wrong. Children are so innocent, they don't know any better. They just want to play dolls or trucks.

Quoting ☆twat waffle☆:“ theres so many links. you want us to read them all? or are there 2 links that specify everything overall?”

Sorry, I would like for everyone to read or listen to the NPR story, it is really what started this whole spark for me. And, it is very personal, these two families and how they respond to their children. The rest is related, suggested, read it if you want more information.

And sorry if it is an overload but here is another link for those who want to delve deeper. Again, this is suggested. This one is about a hormone that slows puberty so a transgender child can delay the decision about whether to take hormones to become another gender physically.
Parents Consider Treatment to Delay Son's Puberty

Quoting usmcbaby!*2daystilbaby*:“ "What would you do if your little boy wanted to play with barbies and wear dresses? What would you do ... [snip!] ... them to think that they're wrong. Children are so innocent, they don't know any better. They just want to play dolls or trucks.”

Wow, I think that is common. As I said, my boyfriend had no qualms about a little girl in overalls but seemed at a loss about what he would do if his little boy wore a dress. He knew, if that was the case, that he would keep his son away from his own father, brother, and uncles. He suffered much ridicule from them without that and is sure a boy in a dress would never survive their harshness. Men have an issue with boys acting like girls where they wouldn't with girls acting like boys. Maybe it is just because it is foreign? Definitely though, in our society, there is much more of a stigma around boys being feminine than girls being masculine. I think I once read in a psychology textbook that girls with masculine traits are actually usually more popular, because they are leaders, whereas boys with feminine traits are usually less popular. I don't know if that is always true though, I had an effeminate homosexual best friend in high school and he was very popular because he was very social and friendly.

How many times have we heard guys tease each other for being "gay"or a "pussy" or otherwise unmasculine. Girls may sometimes tease each other for being "butch" but I really haven't encountered it, and it must happen way less often. On the contrary, we seem to compete in masculine things as well. Whose hair looks good or not as well as who can toss a football better.

Hmmm... My daughter DOES play with trucks, altho she hates overalls, they "ow her butt" she says LOL She also carries Beebee (her baby doll) with her everywhere and has her Hot Wheels in the bottom of BeeBees stroller... And we (my husband and I) do not have an issue with this... However, if my son decided he wanted to play with dolls or asked to wear a dress, I really think Shane would lose it... I am not sure HOW I would react to be honest, but reading the story, I really think I could come around to seeing that if he was happier in pink, I would be happier for him... I don't think I could make him go through the therapy like Bradley... It would kill me to see him so tormented. I would probably hope that he "grew out" of it some day, but I would not be able to cause him the emotional pain of being that conflicted over something so important and basic as who he is. Also, a daughter being completely masculine is much different from just playing with trucks and being a tomboy. If one of my daughters was as polar opposite as one of those boys, where, she was truly more comfortable all out as a boy, again, I would feel the same as I would with my son. Shane, I am not so sure... I want to say he would deal better with it, but to be honest I think he would hate having a male daughter as much as he would having a female son. Tough call w/o actually living it.

Quoting *19 Days*:“ Hmmm... My daughter DOES play with trucks, altho she hates overalls, they "ow her butt" she says LOL ... [snip!] ... honest I think he would hate having a male daughter as much as he would having a female son. Tough call w/o actually living it.”

I agree there is a difference between just wanting to play with trucks and balls and being associating completely with the male gender. And vice versa. I think the kids in the NPR audio were both very obviously wanting to be a girl and be called a girl.

But why, I wonder, does a girl playing with trucks seem to be a non-issue to most of us but a boy playing with dolls raises alarm?

I would let my daughter wear over alls and play withmostly pink"girly"cars just because their so cute and if my son wanted to play with barbies or baby dolls I'd let him I think him having a baby doll is actually important but I won't put my son on a dress

Quoting Bella Rose:“ I agree there is a difference between just wanting to play with trucks and balls and being associating ... [snip!] ... why, I wonder, does a girl playing with trucks seem to be a non-issue to most of us but a boy playing with dolls raises alarm?”

See, I guess it depends on what exactly constitutes a doll... For example, I have no issues with my son playing with his sisters dolls with her (granted I have not bought him any, but then hes never asked) but he will play kitchen and cook and feed the doll and they take turns whos baby it is and who runs the kitchen and that does not bother me at all. Now, I am not sure if that has much to do with the fact that it IS technically his sisters toys he is playing with... Maybe makes it easier?? If it was just him and he asked for a doll, I dunno... Of course my son had a fascination with finger-nail polish and high heels for awhile as a toddler, but he outgrew it, I think he was just around too many girls and he thought EVERYONE wore nail polish and high heels bc he was too young to understand the difference between boys and girls yet... The point where I personally would really find an issue is where my child actually WANTS to be or feels like they SHOULD be the opposite sex of what they are. And by issue I mean I would need to work through it bc first and foremost I want my children to be happy and comfortable in their skin, regardless of anything else.

Quoting *19 Days*:“ See, I guess it depends on what exactly constitutes a doll... For example, I have no issues with my son ... [snip!] ... through it bc first and foremost I want my children to be happy and comfortable in their skin, regardless of anything else.”

Yes, I think that is what the NPR story was really about, children who really felt they should be the opposite sex. I brought up the casual play because on another forum a bunch of people were saying "boys are boys and girls are girls and that is it" and "just say 'no, those things are off limits'" as if girl things were really harmful for a boy to play with. Anyway, back to the issue at hand. A little boy who really wants to be a little girl or a little girl who really wants to be a little boy.

Would you support this if your child was really staunch about it? Would you start referring to your child as the opposite pronoun like the first family in the story? Would you take all of the toys of the opposite sex away and forbid your child to act like the opposite sex like the second family? At what age do you think a child can know something like this?

Quoting Bella Rose:“ Yes, I think that is what the NPR story was really about, children who really felt they should be the ... [snip!] ... your child to act like the opposite sex like the second family? At what age do you think a child can know something like this?”

You know I truly think that you are born whoever you are... As those young men KNEW they were in the wrong bodies or whatever at a VERY young age... I think thats true, they know very early on and if one of those boys was my son, I think that I would end up doing both. Reason being, my husband would be the one that would want to "push it out" of him or w/e, but if my Nik was nearly as tormented as Bradley came off to me, I would stop and go the other way. I have actually been thinking about this since I saw the post yesterday, and what matters most to ME is my childrens happiness and if that means I have to rearrange MY unfortunate stereotypes to allow them to be themselves, than so be it. I don't think my husband would ever support it, but I would refer to my son as being my daughter or my daughter my son if their case was like those boys were. It would be uncomfortable and difficult at first I am sure, but I would make him being comfortable in his own skin with who he is my priority. I don't think that trying to force the child to be something they so obviously are NOT is going to do anything more than give them a whole new identity crisis, not make them wake up and be manly men or girly girls.