re: Woman punishes son publicly...

Quoting ♡Sarah♡ + 2:" <blockquote><b>Quoting justanothamotha:</b>" EVERY generation says the next one is ... [snip!] ... say. I hope you're child is a prefect angel their whole life because lord knows it would be your fault if they had bad behavior"

MY child isn't a "perfect angel" all the time. I wouldn't expect any child to be but this goes well beyond not being a perfect angel. Saying F off to a teacher is a HUGE deal to me...not a simple Just because he was disrespectful in that moment does not mean it happens all the time or his mom raised someone disrespectful She clearly has raised someone who is disrespectful. I would have never in a million years thought that was an okay thing to do at ANY age, even now as an adult I wouldn't do that. He would not have done it unless he somehow felt it was okay to do it & that he was entitled to treat a teacher that way. You don't go along like a nice respectful kid & then one day up & loose all that character in your raising & just tell a teacher to F off out of nowhere. There is something that is going on well before that occurs.

Quoting justanothamotha:" MY child isn't a "perfect angel" all the time. I wouldn't expect any child to be but this goes well beyond ... [snip!] ... your raising & just tell a teacher to F off out of nowhere. There is something that is going on well before that occurs. "

Well I guess you get a cookie!

<blockquote><b>Quoting justanothamotha:</b>" MY child isn't a "perfect angel" all the time. I wouldn't expect any child to be but this goes well beyond ... [snip!] ... your raising & just tell a teacher to F off out of nowhere. There is something that is going on well before that occurs. "</blockquote>

Children can and will be completely different at school in front of their friends then at home around their parents. I was! I never cussed in front of my mom, always did as she said, learned discipline from her and was punished often for disrespect. I knew how to respect people. Did I care? No. That has nothing to do with my mother's parenting. That had to do with me not giving a crap. I threw a pen at a teachers head and told him to go jump off a cliff. Did my mom raise me to do that? Hell no and she flipped the hell out when she found out. Couldn't believe it because it was "out of character" of me to do so. She didnt know how I acted at school around my friends. I cussed, drank, smoked, partied, did drugs and had underage sex. My mom had no idea because at home I did homework, chores and said my please and thank yous. Always respected my elders and always did as I was told. My mother was very business like and christian as was I.. when I was around her and others. When I wanted to. I also never once got something handed to me. I worked for everything I had. Which taught me structure.
So me acting out as I wanted made my mom a bad parent? She had nothing to do with it.

Quoting ♡Sarah♡ + 2:" <blockquote><b>Quoting justanothamotha:</b>" EVERY generation says the next one is ... [snip!] ... say. I hope you're child is a prefect angel their whole life because lord knows it would be your fault if they had bad behavior"

this.....absolutely this!

I am a prime example of this. I was an smurf between the ages of 12-15ish. I was a dick to my mother, I was a dick to my teachers.....I had a chip on my shoulder and a real problem with authority figures for some reason. Now, I can tell you that my mother is probably the kindest, most gentle and respectful human being on planet earth. Her number one goal in raising me was treating me as an individual worthy of love and respect in hopes that I would pay it forward throughout my life. She did not tolerate the disrespect from me and I definitely had consequences for my actions. Sometimes the consequences were effective and sometimes I chose to continue being a stubborn smurf. Then over time, I matured and started acting like a normal human being.

I have two points. First, sometimes kids just act out regardless of how they're raised. You can have completely disrespectful jerk faces who are raised by parents who are wonderful people and the on the flip side, you can have extremely respectful children with the most beautiful little souls who are raised by scum of the earth parents who couldn't give a smurf less about treating their own child with kindness and respect, let alone, teaching their child to treat others that way. Second, you must find the appropriate discipline for each individual child. It's not a one size fits all kind of deal. Children are individuals with their own minds and their own personalities. While writing apology letters or being grounded my work for some, other children may require a more practical approach. Some kids need to learn empathy and sometimes empathy must be achieved through experiences. I'm sure the teacher this kid disrespected was horrified and embarrassed when he talked to her like that and now he knows exactly how he made her feel. Punishments such as this should be reserved for the most serious infractions. I'm not typically one to advocate humiliation as a means of discipline.....and never for a young child. This child is beyond the age in which a punishment like this would damage his psyche. Sure, it embarrassed him, but will he be "haunted" by this punishment for eternity? No. I would argue on behalf of the opposing side if the mother implemented this punishment over and over and over for minor issues or if she were repeatedly emotionally abusive, but it doesn't sound like that is the case here.

......and once again, I have typed out a novel   I doubt anyone will read this, lol

Quoting Sami&Baby Silas:" <blockquote><b>Quoting justanothamotha:</b>" MY child isn't a "perfect angel" all the ... [snip!] ... I had. Which taught me structure. So me acting out as I wanted made my mom a bad parent? She had nothing to do with it."

Again, no one here is likely to get what I am saying...as it isn't a simple concept. You behaved at home because your mom "taught' you how to behave through control & punishment which meant you knew "what o do" when she was present to enforce it. She didn't teach you why doing right was right for it's own merit or help you learn self discipline, which is what keep a child true to good character when no one is looking.

I never said this woman was a "bad parent" - what I said was she ought to wear a sign too - so I suppose everyone who thinks I called the mom a "bad parent" is then by default themselves saying he is a "bad kid". I don't think he is a bad kid - I think he is a kid who hasn't actually been taught how to treat people if what he's been taught is only good enough to work when mom is standing over him to enforce it rather than him doing it because he understands how & why you act a certain way toward others.

<blockquote><b>Quoting wombie:</b>" this.....absolutely this! I am a prime example of this. I was an smurf between the ages of 12-15ish. ... [snip!] ... sound like that is the case here. ......and once again, I have typed out a novel   I doubt anyone will read this, lol"</blockquote>

I read it all just saying  

Quoting Sami&Baby Silas:" <blockquote><b>Quoting wombie:</b>" this.....absolutely this! I am a prime example ... [snip!] ... once again, I have typed out a novel   I doubt anyone will read this, lol"</blockquote> I read it all just saying  "

Me too! Shes so smart. I love all the points shes made here and in other threads.

<blockquote><b>Quoting justanothamotha:</b>" Again, no one here is likely to get what I am saying...as it isn't a simple concept. You behaved at home ... [snip!] ... over him to enforce it rather than him doing it because he understands how & why you act a certain way toward others."</blockquote>

Actually, again you are incorrect. My mom did teach me that. I was respectful even when she wasnt around but only when I wanted to. Because I did not give a smurf. It again has nothing to do with what my mom did or didnt teach me. I knew disrespecting my teachers was wrong but I still did it when I felt like it. My mother's parenting had nothing to do with how I act.
When I was in a situation where I knew I had to respect people I would. When I was in a mood then smurf that. I was going to do as I pleased and everyone could kiss my ass.

Quoting justanothamotha:" Again, no one here is likely to get what I am saying...as it isn't a simple concept. You behaved at home ... [snip!] ... over him to enforce it rather than him doing it because he understands how & why you act a certain way toward others."

You may be right and you may be wrong. Some kids can be taught and taught and taught again and sometimes they just do their own thing.

I assume your children are still young? As they grow older and become more independent, you'll see how things change....once they get their own ideas about things and then have the influence of friends, sometimes they screw up and make piss poor decisions. That is why we as parents, must implement swift and appropriate action when they do screw up......at 12, they are still learning appropriate behavior. It's not like they have learned all they need to know about life and how to treat others so I think it's ridiculous to say that the parent has failed at teaching them these things since they are STILL teaching them. Clearly his mother is teaching him that it's not ok to act that way at school when he is away from her, if she wasn't teaching him that, we wouldn't be having this conversation because this punisment wouldn't have existed.

Quoting Sami&Baby Silas:" <blockquote><b>Quoting wombie:</b>" this.....absolutely this! I am a prime example ... [snip!] ... once again, I have typed out a novel   I doubt anyone will read this, lol"</blockquote> I read it all just saying  "

 

Quoting ♡Sarah♡ + 2:" Me too! Shes so smart. I love all the points shes made here and in other threads."

<3 love you girlie

Quoting wombie:" You may be right and you may be wrong. Some kids can be taught and taught and taught again and sometimes ... [snip!] ... her, if she wasn't teaching him that, we wouldn't be having this conversation because this punisment wouldn't have existed."

I love the points you make!

Quoting wombie:" this.....absolutely this! I am a prime example of this. I was an smurf between the ages of 12-15ish. ... [snip!] ... sound like that is the case here. ......and once again, I have typed out a novel   I doubt anyone will read this, lol"

I never said the punishment is damaging. I just don't think it is actually effective at learning why what he did is so offensive or making him sorry for anything other than being caught. I don't think he is sorry for the way he treated the teacher because of this. I think he is sorry he is in trouble & likely thinks his mom is an a-hole & I am betting he is spending all his time thinking about that rather than thinking about the content of his own character & how atrocious his behavior was.

And I agree every child is different & needs to be approached in ways that suit their personality. There is a great book called the 5 love languages of children that covers that if you are ever interested.

And it's not like I haven't dealt with teens. I had a teen with me for 2 yrs (until she graduated) because she was out of hand before she came here. She was far from perfect while here, but she made great improvements & all without any yelling, no humiliation, none of this kind of "coming down like a ton of bricks" parenting. She did go to school, she got good grades, she was respectful to teachers & that is not something she was doing before she got here either. I have had plenty of people try to tell me that what I say "wont' work" - but I've seen it work in lots of cases and so you wont' convince me it's a flawed idea. if it works with a kid who is already having issues & is that late in the game there is no reason to think my own children, raised with this approach will somehow have it not work.

And truly - if you want a child's attitude to improve, one of the best ways I've ever found is take them to work with you at a soup kitchen or sorting donation clothing, or delivery food boxes. Kids are often dingholes in attitude because they lack perspective & gratitude about how good their own life really is & they feel unnecessarily entitled & deprived. Seeing how hard life *can be* helps them to put that back in perspective. It also gives them the sense that they have value within the community & they can help to make things better for other people instead of always thinking of themselves.

You can take that for what it is.

Quoting ♡Sarah♡ + 2:" Well I guess you get a cookie!"

Thanks.  

Quoting Sami&Baby Silas:" <blockquote><b>Quoting justanothamotha:</b>" Again, no one here is likely to get what ... [snip!] ... to respect people I would. When I was in a mood then smurf that. I was going to do as I pleased and everyone could kiss my ass."

So your theory is that you were inherently rotten (born that way) & nothing anyone did was going to actually elicit in you a more loving & kind attitude? You had to have it punished into you to be a decent person?