Forums > Debate & DiscussPage 1 2 3 4 5by: ~Julie Blue Eyes~

It's the mental "health care", stupid.

posted 17th Dec
Please (I'm asking nicely) don't make this debate about gun control. It's not about gun control Act like, for just a minute, Newtown didn't happen. Let's approach it without hurting hearts.


I have seen several people on BG talk about the lack of mental health care. Is this actually a problem, the way you see it? Have you known anyone that has not gotten the treatment they need? Why (if you know the reason) were they turned down for said care?


Do you feel that medications are overused. Do you think that psych meds do more harm than they* are letting on? Have you known anyone on meds in their younger years and then "flipped out", maybe committed suicide or acted out in another way?


You don't have to answer each of these questions individually, but I'd really like to see a good conversation, with as many of these questions answered or weighed in on, as possible.


You can read the article, but it may or may not sway your opinion on this. It didn't sway mine, it confirmed what I already thought.. The article is pretty long, just a warning.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/12/17/why-cant-america-care-for-mentally-ill/


Adam Lanza, 20, who killed 20 children and 6 adults on Friday, has brought incalculable grief to dozens of families and stunned our nation.
Now, the debate begins about what to do in the wake of his carnage in Newtown, Connecticut and the multiple murders in Aurora, Colorado and at Columbine High School, the Red Lake Indian Reservation in Minnesota and the West Nickel Mines School in Pennsylvania, Virginia Tech and Chardon High School in Ohio.
Some will say that gun control is the answer, but that ignores the obvious: Too many guns isn’t the issue; too little mental health care is.

Focusing on gun control does more than squander the time and effort of our public officials and state resources and town police forces, it distracts us dangerously from the real work that must be done.
America’s mental health care system is shattered and on its knees.
After decades of deconstructing our inpatient psychiatric hospitals and community mental health centers and after decades of insurance companies demanding that they pay only for social workers and nurses to treat even the most extremely mentally ill and potentially violent individuals (rather than including psychologists and psychiatrists) we now have a mental health care system that simply ignores those among us who suffer with incapacitating symptoms of psychiatric illness and whose suffering can—only in a very, very small percentage of cases, thankfully—lead to terrible violence.
What is wrong, exactly?
Here is the truth: Today, even a mentally ill young man with a known propensity for violence, or even a history of serious violence, is likely to receive just an hour a week of counseling (if that) by a social worker.
He is likely have an unclear diagnosis of his condition and to be on a list of constantly changing, very powerful psychoactive medications prescribed by a nurse.
He is also likely to be turned away -- repeatedly --by emergency room social workers who act as gatekeepers for insurance companies to restrict access to inpatient psychiatric treatment.
If admitted to a psychiatric hospital, he will likely be triaged quickly through an often-incompetent “tune up” of medications that might accomplish nothing and then be sent back home as soon as he “contracts for safety”—simply promising a social worker that he won’t kill anyone.
That young man’s good parents might well pray that he be arrested for another violent crime so that the terms of his probation might (but probably still wouldn’t) include mandatory visits to a mental health professional (though not always the right one for their child’s needs) and mandatory drug testing. At least then he can be jailed if he refuses all treatment or gets hold of some heroin that could worsen his hallucinations.
Imagine the sort of anemic services made available to someone who clearly needs help, and might well be dwelling on very dark thoughts, but has yet to act out violently.
How could this be? What has happened to render such a great nation so incapable or unwilling -- or both -- of caring for the mentally ill?
The following list is not exhaustive, but, though short, it will give you an important window into just how bad our mental health care system has become and why I can only call it a national disgrace:
1) The essential art of helping understand the roots of psychiatric illness in emotion is not available to the vast majority most families, now being reserved for people who can find the small number of professionals who are expert in that skill set, many of whom would never be paid by insurance companies at all, or given only three or six or a dozen hours to treat a very disturbed patient.
Not only have insurance companies demanded that empathy be dispensed in tiny doses, in favor of ten minute medication appointments, but many, many American training programs for psychiatric residents have responded by curtailing education in that healing art such that most new psychiatrists have never even been in therapy themselves and have limited ability to perform it.
The mental health care system is now itself dangerously devoid of the ability to understand patients’ lives, empathize with their suffering and help them beyond their depression and rage.
The constantly changing, partly insurance-company driven, "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders"—which pretends to accurately describe the range of psychiatric suffering through the use of 300 sterile diagnostic labels (conveniently ready for matching up to medications), is part of the problem, too.
2) The demands of insurance companies, including Medicare and Medicaid and every public insurance program, has been to cram down the educational level of clinicians more and more and more.
People with complex histories of abuse and neglect and extremely toxic interpersonal dynamics are now routinely in the case loads of mental health counselors with little more than college degrees (if that) and social workers and nurses, many of whom are very talented and extremely dedicated people, but many of whom simply do not have the ability or training to do what psychiatrists trained for at least 8 years in medical school and residency could do for them.
3) The holistic view of the patient—essential to understanding his view of himself and others and assessing whether dangerous behavior could result—has all but disappeared, having yielded to simplifying and splitting the patient into someone with some emotional problems who should talk to a counselor about his feelings once a week (or less) and someone who needs medicine to think clearly or stop hallucinating or stop being paranoid who should visit a doctor or nurse ten minutes a month for prescriptions. These two professionals often never speak to one another and never even compare notes via email.
Thus, the crucial subtleties of how medicines are impacting the psyche are ignored and the possibilities for bad results are exponentially increased.
4) The use of inpatient psychiatry units as healing environments in which more sophisticated assessments of psychiatric patients are performed is now mostly relegated to rare hospitals that can cost as much as $20,000 or $40,000 or $80,000 a month, which people must pay for themselves, since insurance companies will not.
Insurance companies will only pay for overcrowded psychiatric units, often in disrepair, in which the violent mentally ill are often lumped into one space (and share rooms) with depressed young adults, drug addicted homeless folks and the elderly suffering with dementia.
Most of these units are revolving doors where someone can assault his mother or threaten to kill her on a Friday and be discharged with a new prescription on Monday.
5) There is no system in place—at all—that routes very sick mentally ill individuals, especially those at risk for violence, to forensic psychiatry professions truly skilled to evaluate them. In any case, the numbers of such professionals are extremely low and their use largely limited to evaluating and treating those who have already committed sex crimes or very violent acts, including murder.
Clinicians in ERs and in clinics, whose resources are already stretched dangerously thin—are loathe to file the paperwork that would force hospitalization on the unwilling or force medications on individuals who need them and refuse them, if they are lucky enough to get hospital care.
6) There is no effective, ongoing line of communication between law enforcement
officials and psychiatry professionals about the status of dangerous patients
, even those who have broken the law, already, in very significant ways. The expectation of most probation officers for sex offenders or those mentally ill people charged with violent crimes including guns is a letter faxed to them once a month stating that visits are ongoing—if that. And if the letter were not to arrive, many probation officials would not take notice or take action.
7) In most communities, there are no real psychological/psychiatric resources available within the schools, nor any established and effective line of communication between the schools and outside mental health professionals or agencies.
When I was medical director of the Tri-City Community Mental Health Centers in Massachusetts, I appointed a clinician to act as a liaison to every school we could afford to reach out to. But that was too thin a safety net and a very rare one at that. And centers like Tri-City (where we had 10,000 clients) are so poorly funded that it is an embarrassment.
  In most states there is no way to arrange court-ordered, involuntary outpatient use of medications (including antipsychotic medications) even if someone is very violent or has reported extremely violent thoughts in the hospital, even if that person is psychotic and also addicted to cocaine or heroin, and even if that person is court-ordered to take such antipsychotic medications in the hospital.
Once that person hits the streets he or she is too often free to never visit a psychiatrist, again, to never take another medication and to never be drug-tested.
That is where we are. And that defines what poses as a mental health care system, but does not merit that label.
It is a cruel ruse to suggest to American families struggling with mentally ill loved ones that they can receive effective and healing psychiatric care without spending tens of thousands or, more likely, hundreds of thousands of dollars to do it.
With the dehumanizing forces of media, entertainment and, especially, technology gathering steam every day, we can expect more and more horrific violence, until we come up with a real strategy and a real system to prevent it.
You might think that the system is so far gone that it cannot be rebuilt and built better than ever. But that is not true. All that stands in the way is a clear plan and clear resolve.
Psychiatry and psychology are amazingly effective disciplines, when properly harnessed and deployed. And it doesn’t even have to cost billions of dollars to do that. Within the week, I will post the rough framework of such a plan here on FoxNews.com.
Until then, when you hear well-meaning politicians or community leaders talk about gun control as a solution to school shootings, remember that Adam Lanza was mentally ill (in a way that I would label as “violently ill”) in a nation that has no real mental health care system at all, that he used firearms that were legally obtained by his mother and that he could just as easily have used other means to inflict horrible casualties.
We have no time for misplaced efforts. Our will to heal, not bluster, will define how much senseless, horrific, preventable violence we are yet to see in our schools.
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I have 1 child & live in California
posted 17th Dec
Mental health disorders are typically more prevalent among those of low socioeconomic status, therefore, they can't afford the continuous mental health care that they need. Another issue is medication non-compliance. The meds can't work if you don't take them. My uncle is schizophrenic. The voices tell him not to take his meds, so he doesn't. Unfortunately, he's been in the news a few times. Mental health disorders have a stigma. People that need help don't like to seek help in fear of what society will say. It's sad.

I don't know if that answers your question or not.
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I'm due July 31st, have 1 child & 3 angel babies & live in Indiana
posted 17th Dec
i am a therapist and I find that there is a huge problem in funding. I actually teach at a college rather than do counseling b/c there aren't any jobs available because the agencies in my area lost their funding and had to let a lot of therapists go. I also believe that there is still too much of a stigma attached to people having a mental disorder. I try as hard as i can to instill in my students the belief that the person has a mental disorder but it does not define him or her and it is not contagious and they couldn't help it. Some people are afraid of taking their kids/themselves to therapy or to seek help b/c they are afraid they will look like a failure b/c they couldn't handle it on their own. Just a few of my thoughts I guess. I could go on and on
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I have 2 kids & live in Ohio
posted 17th Dec
wow no time to read all of that, or interest to do so. However from the 1st part that I did read I believe that some meds are misused. Sometimes given to ppl or children when they are not appropriate or in place of other things such as therapy. Sometimes things other than meds may be more beneficial to work through problems instead of just taking meds and forgetting the cause of it. Don't get me wrong some ppl truly need meds, some need them but can not get them for various reasons.
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I have 4 kids & live in Kentucky
posted 17th Dec
I think it is lack of care, andnot taking people seriously in their needs.


I also beleive pharmacueticals could be to blame.. My friend in HS committedsuicide and was severly depressed and on a slew of meds that did nothing but make it worse. Its terrible. My daughter has epilespy and i am seriously contemplating on takeing her off of them and using essential oils instead to treat her. Its all about money with meds.. Another pill to help the side effects of the first pill and so and so forth. Disgusting. I wasput on ans anti dperessent as a teen and it was terrible. I did more cutting then ever and stopped eating. I was better whien i stopped taking it and made my parents thing i was still taking it..
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I'm due July 20th (a boy), have 3 kids & live in Mueang Phuket, Thailand
posted 17th Dec
Quoting Squeaky McGee:" Mental health disorders are typically more prevalent among those of low socioeconomic status, therefore, ... [snip!] ... help don't like to seek help in fear of what society will say. It's sad. I don't know if that answers your question or not."

It's a great start. I want all perspectives and any/all failures in the system...or the individual..that you may see.

Of course, not taking medication that you need would probably not be a great idea. I agree. But, you are saying people DON'T or WON'T get the help that they need for fear of being "labeled" ofr discriminated against or thought less of, right? Interesting angle and not one that I was thinking about.
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I have 1 child & live in California
posted 17th Dec
Quoting ☮ Phuket:" I think it is lack of care, andnot taking people seriously in their needs. I also beleive pharmacueticals ... [snip!] ... cutting then ever and stopped eating. I was better whien i stopped taking it and made my parents thing i was still taking it.."

That's the unfortunate thing about antidepressants. A lot of time the risk of suicide and self-harm increases, because the individual never had the energy to carry through with it before.
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I'm due July 31st, have 1 child & 3 angel babies & live in Indiana
posted 17th Dec
The problem in Canada. (And this is my opinion and very bias, as I work in law and not social work) is that there is no treatment for many mental illnesses, many of them cause paranoia to such a degree that if you are a little late taking your pill and it wears off you become too paranoid to take it. So you need to be institutionalized.

And even if we had the funding to provide that amount of care to people, how many parents are really going to institutionalize their children? I couldn't.
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I have 1 child & live in Beverly Hills, California
posted 17th Dec
<blockquote><b>Quoting Squeaky McGee:</b>" That's the unfortunate thing about antidepressants. A lot of time the risk of suicide and self-harm increases, because the individual never had the energy to carry through with it before."</blockquote>




Excellent point, one that I hadn't even considered before.
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I have 1 child & live in Beverly Hills, California
posted 17th Dec
I think we are over-diagnosing and over-medicating children who really don't need medication, which takes efforts away from those who are truly mentally ill.

Honestly, before last Friday, I'd hear of another shooting in a mall or theater or church and I'd think to myself, "Man, that guy must have been so angry to want to go hurt others like that." But after Friday, I realized these are not just angry people. Normal people who get angry don't feel the need to slaughter kindergartners.

I hope if any good comes out of these horrific events, it's that we take a good hard look at our mental health system and realize just how much we are lacking. Though, it will be difficult, because once you try institutionalizing those who really need help, people will start screaming that we're taking away their rights...
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I'm due December 22nd, have 3 kids & live in Oregon
posted 17th Dec
Quoting one of each 4 me:" i am a therapist and I find that there is a huge problem in funding. I actually teach at a college rather ... [snip!] ... they will look like a failure b/c they couldn't handle it on their own. Just a few of my thoughts I guess. I could go on and on"

Okay, yeah, the article in the OP does point to "lack of care: which translated, to me, into "lack of funding". I think insurance companies don't want to pay this stuff. I think it's probably filtered through a bunch of bureaucratic red tape and then denied, in the end.

Have you seen anyone's psych meds "turn against them" (for lack of a better term) and resulted in a suicide or something like that?
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I have 1 child & live in California
posted 17th Dec
I am diagnosed bipolar. I have gone without care for it for years because my gram couldn't afford the cost and my insurance didn't cover. Then I was kicked off the insurance after I turned 21 and couldn't afford insurance nor qualified for state insurance because I worked part time but couldn't afford not to work. ...
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I'm due July 26th (a girl), have 1 child & 3 angel babies & live in Lafayette, Louisiana
posted 17th Dec
Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" I think we are over-diagnosing and over-medicating children who really don't need medication, which takes ... [snip!] ... once you try institutionalizing those who really need help, people will start screaming that we're taking away their rights..."

I'm not going to speak on that event, but the amount of violent rages in general that happen in the world is proof to me that we aren't diagnosing or medicating children often or early enough.

As I said I'm not a doctor or social worker and I work with a special breed of scum so I am very bias, but I truly believe that these issues need to be addressed very early, as early as first grade.

I think once we hit 20 or 25 it's pretty much too late because we've already laid a foundation of the type of person we are.
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I have 1 child & live in Beverly Hills, California
posted 17th Dec
Quoting Legendary Amanda:" The problem in Canada. (And this is my opinion and very bias, as I work in law and not social work) is ... [snip!] ... to provide that amount of care to people, how many parents are really going to institutionalize their children? I couldn't."

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. So much so, that I was nodding my head in agreement. This is the scenario that I believe to be true.

Ooooooh....whoops! No, I don't agree that MORE medication is needed. I just read your other post.

On one hand, I feel like it shouldn't go untreated if their really is needed treatment. On the other hand, I think we are trigger happy in handing out meds like candy.

I'm trying to find the sensible. middle ground.
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I have 1 child & live in California
posted 17th Dec
Columbine happened primarily because of anti-depressant use with teens. Other instances of extreme violence and teens have also been linked to antidepressant use.

But Adam wasn't a teen. And he didn't show obvious symptoms to anyone around him that he required psychiatric treatment. This is typical with spree killers, especially the more intelligent ones who can much more easily pass for "normal". It's incredibly difficult to predict who will snap and when. People thought Adam was smart and nice, but quiet and had an unfortunate family history.

I don't take any opinion from Faux News seriously. Especially when they seem to think it was caused by secularization.
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I have 1 child & live in Monterey, California
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