re: Christianity still loosing adherents

<blockquote><b>Quoting MysticWitchKat:</b>" It's both actually."</blockquote>




Which I already said.

<blockquote><b>Quoting MysticWitchKat:</b>" Except the words of John are the least likely to be historically accurate and thus probably not said."</blockquote>




Paul and Luke said the same thing. I'll take John's words on it for 1,000,000.00, Alex.

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting MysticWitchKat:</b>" Except the words of John are the least ... [snip!] ... not said."</blockquote> Paul and Luke said the same thing. I'll take John's words on it for 1,000,000.00, Alex."

And matthew stresses the opposite so that creates a conundrum no? Also sinces it's obvious works were important to jesus, it pretty much contradicts his very teachings. The issue with john is that it fails the criteria of independent attestation on the large scale.. Also as theologically developed as it is, it's unlikely to come from Jesus mouth. Compared to mark for instances it's far too refined.

<blockquote><b>Quoting MysticWitchKat:</b>" And matthew stresses the opposite so that creates a conundrum no? Also sinces it's obvious works were ... [snip!] ... theologically developed as it is, it's unlikely to come from Jesus mouth. Compared to mark for instances it's far too refined."</blockquote>


No conundrum, uh-uh.

I already lived most of my life not believing in the Bible. That stopped for me two years ago.

I will not debate the validity of the Bible. Your arguments are completely lost on me. I'm SUPER comfortable where I am, spiritually.

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting MysticWitchKat:</b>" And matthew stresses the opposite so that ... [snip!] ... debate the validity of the Bible. Your arguments are completely lost on me. I'm SUPER comfortable where I am, spiritually."

Those who don't debate the validity do so because they are not comfortable in who they are. They realize that arguments that show aspects of their belief system to be based on falsehoods most likely will shock their faith, and cause disbelief. So in essence you prefer ignorance to knowledge. And if the founder of your religion professes the opposite of someone who never met him, what would you call it?

Quoting MysticWitchKat:" Those who don't debate the validity do so because they are not comfortable in who they are. They realize ... [snip!] ... to knowledge. And if the founder of your religion professes the opposite of someone who never met him, what would you call it?"

Nah. I havent followed all that has been written between the 2 of you as my eyes glaze over when Bible debates happen, but i disagree with your first 2 sentences.
To me, it sounds like both of you are comfortable and confident in your positions.
The debate is going nowhere lol.

Quoting TheNuge:" Nah. I havent followed all that has been written between the 2 of you as my eyes glaze over when Bible ... [snip!] ... To me, it sounds like both of you are comfortable and confident in your positions. The debate is going nowhere lol."

If she was comfortable she would entertain a debate on the subject with knowledge she might be incorrect. When you make your points but then stick your fingers in your ears when someone else does, how comfortable does that make you?

Quoting MysticWitchKat:" If she was comfortable she would entertain a debate on the subject with knowledge she might be incorrect. ... [snip!] ... When you make your points but then stick your fingers in your ears when someone else does, how comfortable does that make you?"

Proverbs 26:4-14 (King James Version)


"4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. 6 He that sendeth a message by the hand of a fool cutteth off the feet, and drinketh damage. 7 The legs of the lame are not equal : so is a parable in the mouth of fools. 8 As he that bindeth a stone in a sling, so is he that giveth honour to a fool. 9 As a thorn goeth up into the hand of a drunkard, so is a parable in the mouth of fools. 10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors . 11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. 12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him. 13 The slothful man saith , There is a lion in the way; a lion is in the streets. 14 As the door turneth upon his hinges, so doth the slothful upon his bed."


Often times an argument ends when the wiser of the two has realized the foolish is unable of being educated or their education is complete. I am a Christian and I believe that it takes faith and works. A person doesn't have to believe in God to be a nice generous person that does good things for others. However, without the faith in God Heaven is not their reward. Faith without works is dead. A Christian can not say they believe one way but live another and think it is okay.

Quoting I'm me:" Proverbs 26:4-14 (King James Version) "4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest ... [snip!] ... their reward. Faith without works is dead. A Christian can not say they believe one way but live another and think it is okay."

so basically all humanitarians who refuse to believe in a sky daddy are going to hell. nice god you've got there lol.

if god is all loving and forgiving, can he forgive someone for not believing in him? if not, then this god is a liar. if so, then belief in him is not necessary.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Jazelle:</b>" so basically all humanitarians who refuse to believe in a sky daddy are going to hell. nice god you've ... [snip!] ... can he forgive someone for not believing in him? if not, then this god is a liar. if so, then belief in him is not necessary."</blockquote>


You have to ask for forgiveness. He'll give it if you ask with a sincere heart that BELIEVES He can grant it.

You see no need for God? Then you see no need to be forgiven. Can't have what you don't ask for.

Tell me, why should you be given a free pass, living life as you wish, not even believing there is a God, while those who truly believe spend their lives trying to please Him and live the life they are suppose to, according to the Bible.

How is THAT fair?

Also, there are AT LEAST 50 Bible verses that tell you, you must BELIEVE, not only in God, but in Jesus Christ, as His son, to be saved. But you say "God is a liar"? Why would you say that?

God is not "all loving" and "all forgiving". He loves His creation and proved this by sending a Savior, to save all...if all CHOOSE. However, He rejects those who reject Him and there are many things He hates, along with hating the people who do them.

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Jazelle:</b>" so basically all humanitarians who refuse to ... [snip!] ... However, He rejects those who reject Him and there are many things He hates, along with hating the people who do them."

he sent a savior who was himself when all he had to do was say okay i forgive you guys. i don't believe in god. i was making a point. i don't need forgiveness lol. sorry, but the bible is bullsmurf that was written by men. if you choose to believe in it, then you do that. i find it hard to believe that people who told the story of jesus weren't even born or were infants when it occurred. but somehow 30 years later they have the full account? okay.

<blockquote><b>Quoting Jazelle:</b>" he sent a savior who was himself when all he had to do was say okay i forgive you guys. i don't believe ... [snip!] ... of jesus weren't even born or were infants when it occurred. but somehow 30 years later they have the full account? okay. "</blockquote>



I see. I thought you were really kinda questioning something, but you just don't believe at all. That's different. If you don't have even a basic belief, then none of it will make sense. LOL

Quoting I'm me:" Proverbs 26:4-14 (King James Version) "4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest ... [snip!] ... their reward. Faith without works is dead. A Christian can not say they believe one way but live another and think it is okay."

There is no reward or punishment. Only natural laws of cause and effect and it applies to all people of all walks of life. I also believe the same about heaven and many levels or mansions and also occupied by souls and creeds mean nothing there

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Jazelle:</b>" so basically all humanitarians who refuse to ... [snip!] ... However, He rejects those who reject Him and there are many things He hates, along with hating the people who do them."

There is no hate in God. Hate is the opposite of love and it is only in this reality where there can be love and hate but in the true God worlds there is only love. Hate cannot exist where there is only unconditional love and I believe God is unconditional love

Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Jazelle:</b>" so basically all humanitarians who refuse to ... [snip!] ... However, He rejects those who reject Him and there are many things He hates, along with hating the people who do them."

A true loving being would never hate anyone or anything. This is further proof that God is a man made deity who is 100% fictional.