Forums > Debate & DiscussPage 1 <> 12by: Nymphadora

re: "Limited/Small Government" and Job Creation

posted 8th Dec
<blockquote><b>Quoting Nymphadora:</b>" So, just curious to those proposing cuts to the welfare programs (not saying this doesn't need to happen). How would you cut them? How do you get to decide who starves and who doesn't?"</blockquote>

I think food stamps should be run more like WIC with only the very basics being provided.

I also think welfare programs should be run by state and local governments and I think there should be strict and relatively short time limits for how long people can be on welfare (disabled excluded).
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I'm due December 22nd, have 3 kids & live in Oregon
posted 8th Dec
<blockquote><b>Quoting SpaceCowgirl:</b>" <blockquote><b>Quoting Nymphadora:</b>" So, just curious to those proposing cuts to ... [snip!] ... and I think there should be strict and relatively short time limits for how long people can be on welfare (disabled excluded)."</blockquote>




Oh yes. Like WIC and/or warehouse pick-up. That would really help.
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I have 1 child & live in Pennsylvania
posted 8th Dec
Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" Nope. "Arthur Brooks, the author of "Who Really Cares," says that "when you look at the data, it turns ... [snip!] ... conservative-headed families make slightly less money." http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1#.UMJjqneypZw "
 
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I have 3 kids & live in Memphis, Tennessee
posted 9th Dec
Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:" Cut taxes, deregulate and CREATE JOBS. The more people work, the less people "starve"."

You do realize that most people on assistance work correct? It's not the lack of jobs, but the lack of decent paying ones for lower skilled labor that drives the cycle.
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I live in ?
posted 9th Dec
Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" Lol, I will look forward to that. I tried googling it...zero articles came up with liberals giving more. Lots of articles about conservatives giving more. Hmmm..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/10/21/study-conservatives-and-liberals-are-equally-charitable-but-they-give-to-different-charities/
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I live in ?
posted 9th Dec
Both sides are correct, and both sides are wrong in their application. The issue is that you need regulation to ensure certain safeties with workers, and consumers. To believe that 'market' will regulate itself is an ignoring of history. However, you also need to to ensure that the regulation is not so stiff as to stifle businesses ability to grow. The issue with assistance is it has an inherent flaw in that it encourages dependance over moving out of it. The republicans have the correct idea on it, however their application fails. People on assistance have jobs for the most part, it's just the threshold to work, and get help are so tied to a low low income that it becomes hard to desire getting off of it. The issue is we should tie assistance to a time frame based off of schooling of some sort, to ensure at the end of 2 or even 4 years you have a degree that allows you to earn a realistic working income. This would reduce the rolls far more effectively than either party seems to achieve. I don't believe government has a real place in job creation, as jobs are created by a desire for services, which will happen regardless.
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I live in ?
posted 9th Dec
Quoting MysticWitchKat:" Both sides are correct, and both sides are wrong in their application. The issue is that you need regulation ... [snip!] ... government has a real place in job creation, as jobs are created by a desire for services, which will happen regardless."


How is the republican "application" a failure?

Lots of people well above the poverty level are on some kind of assistance. I think it is known that you can work and get assistance. IMO, making it more comfie for those on assistance prolongs not pursuing independence
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I have 1 child & live in Pennsylvania
posted 9th Dec
Quoting MysticWitchKat:" Both sides are correct, and both sides are wrong in their application. The issue is that you need regulation ... [snip!] ... government has a real place in job creation, as jobs are created by a desire for services, which will happen regardless."


This column has some interesting info:
http://townhall.com/columnists/lindachavez/2012/12/07/the_american_welfare_state
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I have 1 child & live in Pennsylvania
posted 9th Dec
Quoting khigh:" "

The next right winger that quotes Thomas Jefferson as the end all be all expert to government is going to make me jump off a cliff. Contrary to popular belief Jefferson's voice was not the only one spoken among the founding fathers. And since ronald reagan was quite the spender, I fail to see the point in adding his opinion to make points :-P.
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I live in ?
posted 9th Dec
Quoting MysticWitchKat:" The next right winger that quotes Thomas Jefferson as the end all be all expert to government is going ... [snip!] ... fathers. And since ronald reagan was quite the spender, I fail to see the point in adding his opinion to make points :-P."

<3 THANK YOU!!!!

Both democrats and republicans are fiscally irresponsible in application, just in different sectors of the budget. They are two sides to the same coin.

As for what you said about the cycle of assistance, I do feel education should be a tie in, so that by a certain point you will have a USABLE degree that will get you out of poverty.
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I have 2 kids & 6 angel babies & live in Arizona
posted 9th Dec
Quoting MysticWitchKat:" http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/10/21/study-conservatives-and-liberals-are-equally-charitable-but-they-give-to-different-charities/"

First of all, that doesn't show liberals giving more.

Secondly, it's showing how entire states donated. Not individuals. Hardly a solid indicator of how individuals donate and how it correlates with their political beliefs.

Third, conservatives don't go strutting around bragging about how they are so charitable and are the only people who care about helping the poor. Even within this very topic we had a liberal (who doesn't seem to donate any of their personal money to charity) chastise a conservative who said they donated thousands of dollars to charity - telling her that she didn't care about the poor (or something along those lines).

I'm sick of this stereotype that liberals are all Mother Theresas and conservatives are all Scrooges. Liberals are only willing to give other people's money to charity through involuntary coercion (the government), while conservatives choose to give their money to charity by their own free will. Gee, I wonder which way is more charitable.
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I'm due December 22nd, have 3 kids & live in Oregon
posted 9th Dec
Quoting Nymphadora:" <3 THANK YOU!!!! Both democrats and republicans are fiscally irresponsible in application, just ... [snip!] ... feel education should be a tie in, so that by a certain point you will have a USABLE degree that will get you out of poverty."


While both Ds and Rs have been fiscally irresponsible, there is no comparison between the fiscal plans that Romney and Obama had/have. Personally, I dont see how you can have a more irresponsible plan than the current one our President is asking congress to support. More taxing and more psending and ZERO cuts.

There is no way there would be any "tie-in" to education or any kind of attached strings. Liberals would cry that is was unfair and discriminatory.
IMO, there SHOULD be strings, but there could never be in our current environment.
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I have 1 child & live in Pennsylvania
posted 9th Dec
Quoting TheNuge:" While both Ds and Rs have been fiscally irresponsible, there is no comparison between the fiscal plans ... [snip!] ... cry that is was unfair and discriminatory. IMO, there SHOULD be strings, but there could never be in our current environment."


I'm socially liberal and support certain strings being attached to welfare. Those who qualify for welfare also qualify for Pell Grants.
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I have 2 kids & 6 angel babies & live in Arizona
posted 9th Dec
Quoting SpaceCowgirl:" First of all, that doesn't show liberals giving more. Secondly, it's showing how entire states donated. ... [snip!] ... while conservatives choose to give their money to charity by their own free will. Gee, I wonder which way is more charitable."

 
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I'm TTC since February '13, have 1 child & live in Florida
posted 9th Dec
<blockquote><b>Quoting Nymphadora:</b>" I'm socially liberal and support certain strings being attached to welfare. Those who qualify for welfare also qualify for Pell Grants. "</blockquote>




The outcry would be intense. The education lobby is very strong and they would not like winning and losing programs being chosen.
Also, many, many people are just not "college material" and should do a trade or provide labor or provide administrative support or many other lower-paying jobs that allow for advancement after experience.

I was watching 60 Minutes a few weeks ago and they had owners of companies that chronically can't find good people because need a great deal of training and most applicants were lousy students in HS and don't have the initiative to get thru the rigors of the company-provided training.

So, while I'd love to atatch strings, I don't think it would be allowed.
And, people that barely graduated HS (much of the chronically poor), often do t have interest in educating themselves unless forced.... And even that will get questionable results.
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I have 1 child & live in Pennsylvania
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