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re: Birth rape

posted 14th Nov
Quoting Mrs Somerhalder:" <blockquote><b>Quoting I'm me:</b>" this is what I thought also. I actually assisted ... [snip!] ... would never think of suing because at the end of th day she arrived safely and the dr's and midwives did what needed to be done"

Glad everything went well for ya!
quote
I have 4 kids & live in Kentucky
posted 14th Nov
Did you read her birth story? I thought this too but figured she would just get all up set and throw a fit so I didn't say it lol.


That is why I made the bitch comment. Obviously this is an extremely sensitive topic, and I don't negativity and rude comments from people right now because they don't understand what I'm going through.
If you said something like this in any other thread, I wouldn't feel so additionally violated from people like you saying smurf like this.
quotesmurfs?
I'm due January 1st (it's a surprise), have 1 child & 1 angel baby & live in Lake Arrowhead, California
posted 14th Nov
I just found this on the Birth Trauma/Birth Rape Support Thread. I wish I would have found that before posting this. Those women already understand. PLEASE READ THIS so maybe you might understand as well.
.....................................................................................................
Here is an article on birth rape:
NO Means NO, even in hospital

Does no always mean no? Does it matter where we are? Does it matter what we are wearing? Does it matter what we are doing? Who defines rape? Is there ever a grey area?

It doesn’t matter where we are. It doesn’t matter what we are wearing. It doesn’t matter who we are with, or how many people, or whether they are men or women. We know this! No means No. Always. Rape is rape. There is no grey area. No means No. Women are raped in their own homes, it doesn’t matter where we are. It is never ok. No means No.

So does it matter if we are in hospital? What about while giving birth? If we are not asked “Can I put my hands in your vagina?” or if we are asked and we do not say clearly “Yes, that’s fine” giving clear and informed consent, then what happens? Is this acceptable? What if we are not asked, and someone puts their hands in your vagina? Is that acceptable? Is it acceptable anywhere else? No. So why is it acceptable in hospital?

“But this is what birth is like for women”

Why don’t we deserve respect while giving birth? I was told in prenatal classes, among other things, that I should “leave my dignity at the door”. I think I left more than my dignity at the door. I left my human rights. I went to give birth expecting to be disrespected. Does it have to be like this? Don’t we deserve respect always?

Many women feel cheated and sad after their birth experience, and certainly many feel they were not respected. Women who are unhappy with their experiences deserve support and comfort. Fortunately, some women are happy with their birth experiences. But sadly some women feel as though they have been raped. Feelings about a past sexual assault can resurface after giving birth, but also a woman who has not previously been sexually assaulted can be left feeling like she has been. Perhaps the woman was not respected while giving birth? Some women are assaulted in birth. This is the name they give to their experience; Birth Rape. They feel that this term means they were raped while giving birth, or afterwards. Men or women or both, inserted their hands, or objects into their vagina or anus without clear permission, or by manipulation or coersion. Women have shared their birth stories publicly and they feel they have experienced what they call birth rape. They have been in hospital, giving birth and midwives and / or doctors have inserted their hands into their vagina without permission and sometimes without notice. Women have screamed “NO, NO!” “STOP!” “GET OUT!” and they have not been listened to. Some have even been told to relax or to stop complaining. Some have had their vaginas cut without permission and some while screaming “DON’T” or “NO”. There was no consent. In fact, these women where clearly refusing medical ‘treatment’. Is this acceptable? Why does this continue?

This is part of one woman’s description of her birth rape experience;

The process of [the midwife] placing the [vacuum extractor] cup on my unborn son's head was probably the single most painful experience of my life. She continued to explain how she needed to force my cervix back and how it would all be over soon as I begged her to STOP and told her to get her hands (both of them now) OUT of me. I was in tears…”
She continues later in her story to say this;

I was violated, by women I trusted, without medical cause for the violation. There is no legal protection for the rights of laboring women to say NO to invasive procedures that their birth attendants deem "necessary". The hands of another human being were inside me. I screamed NO and begged her to stop. Not one person, not even the man I loved sitting beside me, thought that my NO meant anything. My body was violated, my will was violated and it was considered "normal". It meant nothing to anyone, not even me. Until I recognized that my right to say NO didn't end when I became pregnant or even when I went into labor, I assumed that my birth was natural, normal and good. Once I realized that my rights were violated during my birth, my life changed forever”. - Kya

“But this is a necessary medical procedure / environment, so it’s not rape”

Most would agree that a vaginal exam needs clear permission before it is to be performed, if it even needs to be performed at all. There is medical evidence to say that a vaginal exam actually hinders labour, and increases the chance of infection. A website run by UK midwives sites this medical research about vaginal exams;

Many women find vaginal examinations painful and sometimes traumatic (Menage 1996); sensitivity to this issue, privacy and continuity of midwife will make them less so. Vaginal examinations measure of the progress of labour imprecisely when performed by different examiners (Clement 1994). Where possible therefore, they should be carried out by the same midwife. Examinations should not be routine or prescriptive but carried out only where there is clinical necessity and after discussion with the woman. Midwives should give weight to their other skills in determining the progress of labour (McKay and Roberts 1990). "Repeated vaginal examinations are an invasive intervention of as yet unproven value" (Enkin 1992). http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/Evidence.htm

With any other medical procedure, no one is permitted to insert anything into a vagina without clear permission. As you enter the doctors surgery for an appointment, if the doctor immediately inserts his hands or an instrument into your vagina without warning, is this rape? What if we knew we were going for a pap smear? Then is consent implied that we are allowing our doctor to put objects or hands into our vagina at any time? Any vaginal exam needs clear and informed consent, every time.

The BRISSC centre in Brisbane includes this information in their definition of rape;

Rape is more about the abuse of power than about sexual attraction or the desire for sexual gratification. Rape is when someone uses their power, manipulation or force to intimidate, humiliate, exploit, degrade or control another. Rape has been used as a weapon in war, in racial violence and in everyday life. Rape diminishes a person's dignity and their human rights to safety, choice and consent. Our definition takes into account that a person may feel as if they have been raped in circumstances that are not legally defined as constituting rape. Rape may not involve actual physical injury. It is an act that may be experienced as a violation of the physical body, and/or on emotional, intellectual, and spiritual levels. Rape may also be defined as a process by which people feel that they do not have the right to say no and have their rights respected.
Some examples of rape include;
A general practitioner convinces a woman to undertake an intimate examination when it is unnecessary or inappropriate.
http://www.brissc.com.au/resources/for/for_1.html

Many believe that vaginal exams are often unnecessary. We should have the right to chose if we want vaginal exams or not. We should be able to refuse ‘treatment’ at any time. Any other time that we are in hospital we can refuse treatment. When we sign in to hospital, the paperwork will most likely state something about "any other procedure deemed necessary" (which you can cross out and initial). This may then mean that this violation of women’s rights is legal. [Ed note; Not sure about this section - don't like the wording]

The legal definition of rape would most likely not include birth rape as rape, but does that mean it’s not rape? Birth rape would fit in the definition above, and it is a term used by victims themselves. Whether you feel that birth rape is a proper definition of rape or not, it is real for many women, and that is what matters. Have we become so conditioned to violence in our world that we think this is acceptable? From what is described, it is clearly violence against women. It is a complete lack of human rights when our bodies are not are own, and when we are not respected in birth.

Another woman shares her thoughts on birth rape;

“Our vaginas don't "know" the difference between a gloved hand full of self importance and a socially sanctioned rapist and they react exactly the same way. Anything that happens to a woman's body without consent is called rape or assault but somehow hospitals have exemption from this. I know for sure that if it happened in the street with that many witnesses you could go to the police”. - Janet

Birth is not a medical procedure. Birth is birth. It belongs to women and it is being medicalised and taken from us. We are vulnerable when we are giving birth, and we deserve the utmost respect. We are powerful, wonderful creatures, we deserve respect and so do our vaginas.

Kya ends her story of her birth rape with this comment;

“Pregnant women have a right to privacy, even (or maybe, particularly) genital privacy. That right doesn't end when labor begins. It should never end. Women deserve the right to say NO and be taken seriously at any and every point in their lives. No doctor, no midwife, no stranger, no husband, NO ONE should be allowed to violate them without consequence, ever again!”
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I'm due January 1st (it's a surprise), have 1 child & 1 angel baby & live in Lake Arrowhead, California
posted 14th Nov
What's the issue? I read your birth story, you're pissed you had an episiotomy, that's it?
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I have 3 kids & live in New Zealand
posted 14th Nov
it just seems like you are throwing you little fit since there were a couple of ppl that weren't babying you and stated some facts. I didn't mean to offend you, if it did I'm sorry. But without any real proof I don't think you could win a court case. The drs would have the EMF (electronic Fetal Monitoring) strip to use as a basis for their professional judgment in their actions. If the baby's cord was compressed (this is often the reason for the decrease in the heart rate) in as little as 3 mins there can be preminate brain damage. So yes, they may have placed a internal fetal monitor and an episitomy but they can take the side that they were trying to prevent your baby from experiencing a birth related trauma. If you are seriously having emotional problems related to the out came of your delivery you may need to talk with a counselor or therapist.
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I have 4 kids & live in Kentucky
posted 14th Nov
Quoting h*:" What's the issue? I read your birth story, you're pissed you had an episiotomy, that's it?"
I'm pissed because they forced an episiotomy without explaining, I didn't even know she cut me til she did. She shoved both hands up my vag and painfully stretched it before cutting, without warning. I was screaming stop, get the smurf out of me, she ignored me. I got a catheter shoved up my urethra without warning, while screaming stop, on the grounds that my bladder was too full and was blocking Cillian's head from coming out. If I pissed myself, so what?

It was fifteen minutes from the time I was put on the table, to the time she cut me. I pushed for under 5 mins. They only had the HR monitor on for like 30 seconds or something, and the distress they put me in caused my blood pressure to skyrocket, therefore putting my baby in distress. They shoved the internal HR monitor in me without warning or explanation, which caused pain to me, and a cut and bruise on my son's scalp that didn't heal for 3 months.

They gave me pitocin, and magnesium without warning or explanation. The magnesium which caused my BP to raise dangerously and for me to retain fluid, which could have killed me easily. There was no need to forcefully expel my placenta, and there was no need to take my placenta and put it in formaldehyde after I had asked to take it home. I was going to eat my placenta to prevent PPD/Depression/or symptoms of PTSD. Look where I am now.

They verbally abused me while in labor, and told me I almost killed my child for attempting a UC. They made me feel irresponsible and guilty for doing a UP. We were going to be fine if I stayed at home. The only reason I went in is because I didn't think that progressing to transition in 3 hours was normal lol.

So that's why I'm pissed.
You really can;t understand why a bad birth experience such as that would cause me to feel traumatized?
quotesmurfs?
I'm due January 1st (it's a surprise), have 1 child & 1 angel baby & live in Lake Arrowhead, California
account removed
posted 14th Nov
<blockquote><b>Quoting h*:</b>" What's the issue? I read your birth story, you're pissed you had an episiotomy, that's it?"</blockquote>



And hands were shoved up her to get baby out  
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I'm due July 4th, have 2 kids & live in Australia
posted 14th Nov
one more thing...Before tring to bring about a lawsuit you may want to contact the hospital where you delivered at and ask for a copy of the informed consent papers that you should have singed when you were first admitted to the L&D floor. One of those papers may have gave the dr the right to preform certain procedures during delivery. So many ppl sign those without ever reading them. And by signing them you gave written consent. "Rape" doesn't have any form of consent.
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I have 4 kids & live in Kentucky
posted 14th Nov
Listen, I feel traumatized. I'm suffering ptsd. You are not psychologists. In the end, I suffered. GTFO, cuz you are not allowed to post negative smurf in this forum.
quotesmurfs?
I'm due January 1st (it's a surprise), have 1 child & 1 angel baby & live in Lake Arrowhead, California
account removed
posted 14th Nov
<blockquote><b>Quoting Natural Goddess Mommy:</b>" I'm pissed because they forced an episiotomy without explaining, I didn't even know she cut me til she ... [snip!] ... that's why I'm pissed. You really can;t understand why a bad birth experience such as that would cause me to feel traumatized?"</blockquote>



Not really. Is your son healthy?
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I'm due July 4th, have 2 kids & live in Australia
posted 14th Nov
<blockquote><b>Quoting Natural Goddess Mommy:</b>" Listen, I feel traumatized. I'm suffering ptsd. You are not psychologists. In the end, I suffered. GTFO, cuz you are not allowed to post negative smurf in this forum."</blockquote>

I only asked a smurfing question, calm your farm.

Why did you post this in s&l? Did anyone die? If your suffering PTSD is suing the hospital going to help? No. See a therapist
quotesmurfs?
I have 3 kids & live in New Zealand
posted 14th Nov
Quoting Mrs Somerhalder:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Natural Goddess Mommy:</b>" I'm pissed because they forced an ... [snip!] ... a bad birth experience such as that would cause me to feel traumatized?"</blockquote> Not really. Is your son healthy?"

That's all that matters huh? Not my loss of control, respect, and dignity?
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I'm due January 1st (it's a surprise), have 1 child & 1 angel baby & live in Lake Arrowhead, California
posted 14th Nov
you really need to look some of this stuff up instead of just the birth "rape."

You cannot simply pee when the pressure from the baby’s head has your urethra clamped shut. But the bladder is too full to let the baby pass. So the cath opens the urethra so the urine can pass. If the placenta stays in your body it increases your risk for hemorrhage and infection. 30 seconds of FHR monitoring is all that is needed to determine that the baby is in danger. Mag is used to lower bp and hypertension is not a side effect of it, according to the 2011 mosbys nursing drug reference 24th ed.Yes i looked it up in my reference book so I could give you proof. The Pit helps the uterus to contract and is routinely given to women who retain a portion of the placent to prevent post-partum hemorrhage.
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I have 4 kids & live in Kentucky
posted 14th Nov
Quoting I'm me:" one more thing...Before tring to bring about a lawsuit you may want to contact the hospital where you ... [snip!] ... sign those without ever reading them. And by signing them you gave written consent. "Rape" doesn't have any form of consent."
Duh. However, birth rape does cover the area where they are yelling at me, taking advantage of my weakness, and yelling that my son will die if I don't sign. Intimidation and threats if death to agree to sign is still the same as that.
It's like if someone got raped with a penis, after the man is begging and begging and threatening you to let him smurf you or else, and the girl says fine, yes because shes scared and bullied into it. That is still rape.
quotesmurfs?
I'm due January 1st (it's a surprise), have 1 child & 1 angel baby & live in Lake Arrowhead, California
posted 14th Nov
<blockquote><b>Quoting Natural Goddess Mommy:</b>" That's all that matters huh? Not my loss of control, respect, and dignity?"</blockquote>




Should've stayed home then and done things YOUR way instead of a hospital or birthcare where you get the help of nurses drs or midwives. Ha.
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I have 3 kids & live in New Zealand
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