Forums > Debate & DiscussPage > 9by: Dovahkiin

Obama is the "wrong" kind of Christian

posted 21st Oct
It is long, yes, but it is worth reading. I'd like to discuss this. If you are a Christian, do you believe that Obama is indeed the "wrong" kind of Christian? Does his stance on abortion, same-sex marriage, and "Muslim sympathies" cause you to feel this way?



To some, Obama is the 'wrong' kind of Christian

By John Blake, CNN

President Barack Obama was sharing a pulpit one day with a conservative Christian leader when a revealing exchange took place.
Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback, a conservative Christian who has taken public stands against abortion and same-sex marriage, had joined Obama for an AIDS summit. They were speaking before a conservative megachurch filled with white evangelicals.

When Brownback rose to speak, he joked that he had joined Obama earlier at an NAACP meeting where Obama was treated like Elvis and he was virtually ignored. Turning to Obama, a smiling Brownback said, “Welcome to my house!”
The audience exploded with laughter and applause. Obama rose, walked before the congregation and then declared:
“There is one thing I have to say, Sam. This is my house, too. This is God’s house.”

Historians may remember Obama as the nation’s first black president, but he’s also a religious pioneer. He’s not only changed people’s perception of who can be president, some scholars and pastors say, but he’s also expanding the definition of who can be a Christian by challenging the religious right’s domination of the national stage.

When Obama invoked Jesus to support same-sex marriage, framed health care as a moral imperative to care for “the least of these,’’ and once urged people to read their Bible but just not literally, he was invoking another Christian tradition that once dominated American public life so much that it gave the nation its first megachurches, historians say.

“Barack Obama has referred to his faith more times than most presidents ever have, but for many it’s the wrong kind of faith,” says Jim Wallis, head of Sojourners, an evangelical activist group based in Washington that focuses on poverty and social justice issues.

“It is not the faith of the religious right. It’s about things that they don’t talk about. It’s about how the Bible is full of God’s clear instruction to care for the poor.”

Some see a 'different' kind of Christian

Obama is a progressive Christian who blends the emotional fire of the African-American church, the ecumenical outlook of contemporary Protestantism, and the activism of the Social Gospel, a late 19th-century movement whose leaders faulted American churches for focusing too much on personal salvation while ignoring the conditions that led to pervasive poverty.

No other president has shared the hybrid faith that Obama displays, says Diana Butler Bass, a historian and author of “Christianity after Religion.”

“The kind of faith that Obama articulates is not the sort of Christianity that’s understood by the media or by a large swath of Christians in the U.S.,” says Bass, a progressive Christian. “He’s a different kind of Christian, and the media and the public awareness needs to reawaken to that fact.”

Some Christians, however, still see Obama as the “other.” He doesn’t act or talk like other Christians, says the Rev. Gary Cass, a conservative Christian president of the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission.

“I just don’t see or hear in his accounts the kind of things that I’ve heard as a minister for over 25 years coming from the mouths of people who have genuinely converted to Christianity,” says Cass, pastor of Christ Church in San Diego.

Cass says he’s never heard Obama say he’s “born-again.” There’s no emotional conversion story to hang onto.

Obama talks about his faith and attends church, but Cass says that doesn’t mean he’s a Christian.

“Joining a church doesn’t mean you’re a Christian. “You can put me in the garage, but that doesn’t turn me into a car.”

The origins of Obama’s faith

The suspicion about Obama’s faith may seem odd at first because he’s written and spoken so much about his spiritual evolution in his two autobiographies, “Dreams of my Father” and “The Audacity of Hope.” Other books, like “The Faith of Obama” by Stephen Mansfield, also explore Obama’s beliefs.

Mansfield says Obama is the first president who wasn’t raised in a Christian home. Obama’s mother was an atheist and his grandparents were religious skeptics (Obama’s family has challenged the description of his mother as an atheist. Obama called her “the most spiritually awakened” person he’d ever known, and his sister called their mother an agnostic).

Mansfield called Obama’s boyhood a “religious swirl. He was exposed to Catholicism, Islam, and strains of Hinduism and Buddhism while growing up in Indonesia during the 1960s.

“In our household, the Bible, the Koran and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology,” Obama said in Mansfield’s book. “On Easter or Christmas Day, my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the Chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites.”

Obama became a Christian while he was a community organizer in Chicago. He joined a predominately black United Church of Christ. The UCC became the first mainline Protestant denomination to officially support same-sex marriage in 2005.

Obama’s faith showed many of the elements of a liberal Protestant church: an emphasis on the separation of church and state, religious tolerance and the refusal to embrace a literal reading of the Bible.

In a 2006 speech before a Sojourners meeting, Obama talked about his approach to the Bible:
“Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount – a passage that is so radical that it’s doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application?”

When many people think of Obama’s religious experience in Chicago, though, they cite his exposure to the angry sermons of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and “black liberation theology,” a movement that emerged in the late 1960s and blended the Social Gospel with the black power movement.

Bass, the church historian, says another black pastor shaped Obama’s theology more: the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

He attended liberal Protestant seminaries where he learned about the Social Gospel’s concern for the entire person, soul and body.

King once wrote that “any religion that professes to be concerned about the souls of men and is not concerned about the slums that damn them, the economic conditions that strangle them …is a spiritually moribund religion awaiting burial.”
But King and the black church also fused the Social Gospel with an emotional fervor missing from white Protestant churches, Bass says. Other presidents like Franklin Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson were influenced by the Social Gospel, but they weren’t shaped by the black church.
“This is the first time we’re hearing the Social Gospel from the perspective of the black church from the Oval Office. It makes it warmer, more emotive, more communal," Bass says. "There is less fear of linking the Social Gospel with the stories of the Bible, especially the stories of Exodus and Jesus’ healings.”
The emphasis on community uplift - not individual attainment - may strike some Americans as socialist. But the emphasis on community is part of King’s “Beloved Community,” Bass says.
King once wrote that all people are caught up in an “inescapable network of mutuality… I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be you ought to be.”
“When I listen to Obama, I don’t hear communism, I hear the Beloved Community,” Bass says. “But a lot of white Americans don’t hear that because they never sat in those churches and heard it over and over again. It’s the whole theology that motivated MLK and the civil rights movement.”
Obama is not a Christian, some think

For some, Obama’s actions in the Oval Office seem to contradict Christianity.
Jesus was nonviolent. Obama has ramped up drone attacks in Afghanistan that have not only removed terrorists, but killed civilians.

The Bible talks about the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Obama invoked Jesus when he came out in support of same-sex marriage. “The thing at root that we think about is, not only Christ sacrificing himself on our behalf, but it’s also the Golden Rule," Obama told ABC News during his announcement.

Jesus talked about helping the poor. But he never said anything about creating a massive health care law that taxed the rich to help the poor, some Christians argue.

But Wallis of Sojourners says Obama’s push for health care was a supreme example of Christian faith.

A situation where 50 million Americans don’t have health insurance is “a fundamental Christian problem,” Wallis says.
“Health is such a Gospel issue. Jesus was involved in healing all the time, and to have some people excluded from health care because they lack wealth is a fundamental Christian contradiction.”

Wallis has been one of the most persistent defenders of Obama’s faith. But no matter how much Scripture he and others cite, doubts about Obama’s faith have followed him throughout his political career.

Focus on the Family founder James Dobson once said that Obama distorted the traditional understanding of the Bible “to fit his own world, his own confused theology.” The Rev. Franklin Graham, the son of Billy Graham, publicly questioned Obama’s faith, then later apologized.

Conservative Christian books and websites are filled with stories of Obama allegedly trying to suppress the nation’s Christian heritage.

The Rev. Steven Andrew, author of “Making a Strong Nation,” says Obama is trying to change the national motto from “In God we Trust” to “Out of Many, One,” and he’s ordered the Pentagon to remove biblical verses from its daily report.

“That’s the most serious thing someone can do to a nation, trying to separate a nation from God,” he says. “He seems to be trying to change the Christian laws our Founding Fathers made.”

Andrew says Obama is actually an enemy of Christianity. In his book, Andrew argues that the Founding Fathers were Christians who created a “covenant Christian nation” and calls for a “national repentance.”

“I think he’s an anti-Christ,” Andrew says. Cass, of the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission, says Obama’s emphasis on helping the poor through social justice isn’t Christianity.

Christians who talk about “social justice” are often practicing “warmed-over Marxism,” Cass says.

“Do I believe in caring for the poor and oppressed? Yes. But you don’t do it along the lines of communistic redistributing.”

Obama’s support of same-sex marriage and abortion rights also disqualifies him from being a Christian, Cass says.

“It’s the most pro-abortion administration in the history of America. On every social issue – the sanctity of life and of marriage between men and women – Obama is on the wrong side of every moral issue,” he says.
He says a progressive Christian is a contradiction.

“No Christian says I believe in Jesus Christ and I reject the Bible,” Cass says. “These progressives who say they’re Christians are liars. They’re using Christianity as a guise to advance their own agenda.”

Cass says he doesn’t know what Obama believes.
“He’s conflicted,” Cass says. “He has Muslim sympathies from his upbringing."

How progressive Christianity lost the public square

There was a time when Obama’s brand of Christianity would have been understood by millions of Americans, historians say.

The Social Gospel and progressive Protestantism dominated the American religious square from the end of the 19th century up to the 1960s. At times, the traditions blended together so seamlessly that it was hard to tell the difference.
The Social Gospel rose out of the excesses of the Gilded Age in the 1880s, when urban poverty spread across America as immigrants crammed into filthy slums to work long hours in unsafe conditions.

Walter Rauschenbusch, a Baptist pastor in a New York slum, urged the church to take “social sins” as seriously as they took individual vices. Churches began feeding the poor and fighting against other social ills.

“The notion that religious people should be about feeding the poor and helping the homeless is a carryover of the Social Gospel,” says Charles Kammer, a religion professor at Wooster College in Ohio. The Social Gospel was adopted by many Protestant churches in the late 19th and early 20th century, says Bass, the church historian. Some of the Social Gospel churches grew popular because they provided the poor with everything from English classes to sewing instructions and basketball leagues.

“The first American megachurches were liberal, Social Gospel urban churches,” Bass says.

The Social Gospel, though, sparked a backlash from a group of pastors during World War I. They were called fundamentalists. They published a pamphlet listing the “fundamentals of the faith:” Biblical inerrancy, the virgin birth, Adam and Eve.

But the fundamentalists lost the battle for public opinion during the “Scopes Monkey Trial” in 1925. John Scopes, a high school science teacher, was tried for violating a Tennessee law that prohibited the teaching of evolution.

Though Scopes lost, fundamentalist Christians were mocked in the press as “anti-intellectual rubes,” and a number of states suspended pending legislation that would have made teaching evolution illegal, says David Felton, author of “Living the Wisdom: The Wisdom of Progressive Christianity.”

The trial drove fundamentalists underground where they created a subculture, their own media networks, seminaries and megachurches, he says.
That subculture thrives today, Felton says, and has infiltrated the political arena. It has created an “alternative intellectual universe” that denies science, rational thought – and any beliefs that violate their definition of being a Christian, Felton says.

“They have millions of adherents who believe in a literal six day creation and a literal Adam and Eve – so it’s not a stretch to believe that President Obama is a Kenyan-born secret Muslim bent on destroying the country,” Felton says.
Progressive Christians eventually lost the messaging wars to this fundamentalist subculture, Bass says. Their nuanced view of faith couldn’t compete with the “spiritual triumphalism” of conservatives.

“If you get up and say we’re right and we have the truth, then you have a powerful public message,” she says. “They have a theological advantage in the public discourse. It’s comforting to have things clear, to have things black and white.”

The result today is that the Protestant tradition that shapes much of Obama’s Christianity is fading from public view.
The share of Protestant Christians in the United States has dropped below 50% of the population, according to a recent survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

White mainline Protestants make up only 15% of the nation’s population, the survey revealed. The study also found that the fastest growing "religious group" in the country is people who are not affiliated with any religion.
Another generation of Christians, though, may bring a new version of progressive Christianity back.

The lines between younger conservative Christians and progressives are blurring, says Marcia Pally, author of “The New Evangelicals: Expanding the Vision of the Common Good.”

Pally spent six years traveling across America to interview evangelicals. She says her research revealed that more than 60% of young evangelicals support more governmental programs to aid the needy, as well as more emphasis on economic justice and environmental protection issues.

“What’s interesting is that these values, associated with Obama and the black Protestant tradition are now also the values of a growing number of white evangelicals,” she says.

Her perspective suggests that Obama’s faith may be treated by history in two ways:
He could be seen as the last embodiment of a progressive version of Christianity that went obsolete.

Or he could be seen as a leader who helped resurrect a dying brand of Christianity for a new generation.
quote
I have 1 angel baby & live in Kentucky
posted 21st Oct
I read that earlier and I think it's quite offensive honestly. How can you be the wrong kind if Christian? You believe what you need to believe, and follow what you believe is right.

I think the writer is just playing into the ideas that some people have of Obama being Muslim. Which, in my opinion is not a bad thing at all, but a lot of people use it as an insult.
quote
I have 1 child & live in Indiana
posted 21st Oct
Quoting Emmy's Mom:" I read that earlier and I think it's quite offensive honestly. How can you be the wrong kind if Christian? ... [snip!] ... people have of Obama being Muslim. Which, in my opinion is not a bad thing at all, but a lot of people use it as an insult."

I find it offensive as well, especially the author's continuous use of the phrase "black church." Like okay? Does it really matter? You could just say church.
quote
I have 1 angel baby & live in Kentucky
posted 21st Oct
I didnt read it all, because I already know his policys, and what not... I think anyone who judges him as a "wrong" kind of christian, is a wrong kind themselves. Judge not ye be not judged. Btw I'm not christian, but I was, and I stopped being christian the day my family and childhood church told us my gay brother was no longer welcome at their church, because he is gay. (Doesnt mean I dont belive in God) Personally imo, I think there is already a "wrong kind of christian" and if Obama being tolerant of all kinds of people makes him wrong, than I would rather be wrong than right.

Edit: I just read it all, and this article is a joke. I love how the lady point out going to church doesnt make someone a Christian.... I bet she taught her kids when someone point a finger three more point back.
quote
I have 2 kids & live in North Highlands, California
posted 21st Oct
<blockquote><b>Quoting bbbt:</b>" I find it offensive as well, especially the author's continuous use of the phrase "black church." Like okay? Does it really matter? You could just say church. "</blockquote>




Exactly. It's very racial based.

Everything Obama does is over analyzed into it either being because he has strong ties to the black community or because he has Muslim history. Whatever happened to him doing the things he does because he's simply a person making the choices he believes are best.
quote
I have 1 child & live in Indiana
posted 21st Oct
Quoting Emmy's Mom:" <blockquote><b>Quoting bbbt:</b>" I find it offensive as well, especially the author's ... [snip!] ... Whatever happened to him doing the things he does because he's simply a person making the choices he believes are best."

Obama being president has made me realize how incredibly racist our nation still is.
quote
I have 1 angel baby & live in Kentucky
posted 21st Oct
<blockquote><b>Quoting bbbt:</b>" Obama being president has made me realize how incredibly racist our nation still is."</blockquote>




It's awful. I don't know how you could be alive today and be a racist. I've good and bad people from all races and religions. Obama takes so much smurf it's crazy, but yet we have a governor who's very own state he governed will not be voting for him for president, he refuses to really take a firm stance on letti Ledbetter act, yoyos on his policies, promises huge things but can't say how he will deliver, and wants to make decisions about a woman's body and take away the right to choose.

By all means though let's continue to write articles such as this one about Obamas faith while putting in digs at his black and Muslims roots. It's pathetic.
quotesmurfs?
I have 1 child & live in Indiana
posted 21st Oct
Quoting Emmy's Mom:" <blockquote><b>Quoting bbbt:</b>" Obama being president has made me realize how incredibly ... [snip!] ... to write articles such as this one about Obamas faith while putting in digs at his black and Muslims roots. It's pathetic."

Ha, you are so right. You get an internet high five from me.  
quote
I have 1 angel baby & live in Kentucky
posted 21st Oct
<blockquote><b>Quoting bbbt:</b>" Ha, you are so right. You get an internet high five from me.   "</blockquote>




Lol, thank you! I usually steer clear of voicing my political opinion because its not going to change someone's mind, but damn it if sometimes it don't just come bursting out of me. Better that I guess than relentlessly shaking some sense into Romney supporters
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I have 1 child & live in Indiana
posted 21st Oct
Quoting bbbt:" Obama being president has made me realize how incredibly racist our nation still is."

I agree with you our nation is still racist, but just not by whites. I was NEVER called a racist until I was 32. I said I didnt like Obama..some black ladies called me a racist white whore blah blah blah..I am far from racist... Blacks can be racist..hispanic etc.. Alot of things get twisted and some call it racist.. Oh and I dont think there is a wrong kind of Christian..I believe in GOd but I also believe in same sex marriage..we believe what we believe..doesnt make us horrible people
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I have 4 kids & 2 angel babies & live in California
posted 21st Oct
<blockquote><b>Quoting Honda450:</b>" http://gawker.com/5953357/missouri-pastors-fiery-speech-against-equal-rights-for-homosexuals-has-stunning-twist-ending I watched this and you have to watch the WHOLE thing."</blockquote>




Oh wow! The whole time I was disturbed! The ending is amazing!!! Great video!
quote
I have 1 child & live in Indiana
posted 21st Oct
Quoting Emmy's Mom:" <blockquote><b>Quoting Honda450:</b>" http://gawker.com/5953357/missouri-pastors-f ... [snip!] ... watch the WHOLE thing."</blockquote> Oh wow! The whole time I was disturbed! The ending is amazing!!! Great video!"
I know me too! I was beyond mad when watching it, but the end was like WOW!
quote
I live in Iowa
posted 21st Oct
Quoting mamaluvsher4babies:" I agree with you our nation is still racist, but just not by whites. I was NEVER called a racist until ... [snip!] ... Christian..I believe in GOd but I also believe in same sex marriage..we believe what we believe..doesnt make us horrible people"

I'm really glad you pointed that out. Where I lived in TN, black people were by far more racist that anyone else. We will never be a united nation untill ALL racism is gone, and not just from one or two races. Honestly I dont think it will ever happen though. It is pretty sad, because all Americans (except American Indians) are imigrants.
quote
I have 2 kids & live in North Highlands, California
posted 21st Oct
Quoting Honda450:" http://gawker.com/5953357/missouri-pastors-fiery-speech-against-equal-rights-for-homosexuals-has-stunning-twist-ending I watched this and you have to watch the WHOLE thing."

Greatest video ever  
quote
I have 2 kids & live in North Highlands, California
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