re: Family Members Helping Out

Quoting Mama*AtoZ:" No i do. I guess the difference is that i don't see it as a negative thing to want help, just like i ... [snip!] ... and how life should roll, but i see in real life that is called entitlement and obligation. This is a sad realization for me  "

When I lived near my sister, I watched her kids whenever she needed it. When I did, she paid for my gas when she coudl afford it (it was an hour each way), made sure there was food in the house for me to cook if needed, and thanked me very nicely.

Every time she needed help, she ASKED me if I could watch them and tried to work around my schedule if she could, she also helped me and my husband when she could by giving us veggies from her garden or making us dinner (we didn't have kids at that time to trade babysitting).

As for your example of seeing the mom in the infertility clinic, no, I don't generally make a "don't be sad" meal for strangers. But when someone I know has surgery or delivers a baby, etc, I make a meal for them or offer to babysit their other kids to give them a break, etc. I do help strangers, but not blindly. When I see a homeless person, I give them FOOD or clothing rather than cash. I donate to charity (especially veterans' charities and women's health groups that are not political groups).

I just don't feel obligated to help every person I know, especially those who take advantage, are ungrateful, or are unwilling to return the favor if I genuinely need it (note I said unwilling, not unable. I understand when peopel are busy or unable to help me out. because they aren't OBLIGATED to help me, so I don't get upset if they have to run errands instead of babysitting my kid)

Quoting P Pickle Pants:" How I assess whether to help someone: 1. Is it a NEED vs a WANT. I consider needs to be doctors appointments, ... [snip!] ... need it and I can manage it, I do it if they seem grateful and treat me nicely and respectfully and don't take advantage of me."

But in your situation for example, you've said it's so demanding that you're alone with your child all the time and your hubby works away, and you're trying to have another child. You only see the doctors appointment as a need and are grateful for that bit of help. But you don't see time to yourself for a break as a need. Is that because it's your choices? or just because you don't see having a break as important and more of an indulgence?

Do you think that your perception of your own needs/wants dictates what you think you should do for others? Like if time to yourself is a want for you, does that mean you wouldn't provide childcare for a friend if it was not for an appointment, because you think it's just a want?

It just makes me think of the people who don't want to show they need help, so they dress things up as just a want. With these views, those people wouldn't get the help that could actually make a difference in their lives. Like the people who commit suicide, and then folk say "i didn't realize she was struggling" or was unhappy or whatever. Maybe if their 'wants' had been embraced as valid and important then things would've been different.

It's the entitlement/obligation factor that is interesting to me. I fully understand and appreciate about others taking advantage, that's not my issue. But with judging what someone else needs or wants, well, i see that often done to children and it's interesting seeing how they then grow up to do it to others. Parents seem to make strong judgements on wants V needs (often unrealistic ones aimed at their own convenience) and that appears to affect how they then treat others.

I know what i'm thinking here, but my kid went to bed 6 hours ago and i have a headache so i'm loosing my self here lol

Quoting Mama*AtoZ:" But in your situation for example, you've said it's so demanding that you're alone with your child all ... [snip!] ... I know what i'm thinking here, but my kid went to bed 6 hours ago and i have a headache so i'm loosing my self here lol"

Time for herself is a need, sure. But that's why we hire babysitters.


If all you need is a break...and all you have is a small amount of money and all you have is one child to have sat...then you spend your money on a sitter and take a walk.

Quoting Satan:" I dunno. I mean..if X says OMG i totally need help with my power bill. And you find out that the ... [snip!] ... the reason she needed help with the power bill was because she bought a 1200 dollar purse....you'd be peeved. Right? I would."

OOOOH YEAH!

Been there!

If you're paying $30 every two weeks to get your nails done and $60 to get your hair done once a month, and go shopping all the time, etc don't ask me for gas money. BILLS first, then extras! Its not my job to pay for other people's extras! I have no problem helping on bills because we all have something come up now and then, but you have to have some common sense in there too!

Quoting P Pickle Pants:" When I lived near my sister, I watched her kids whenever she needed it. When I did, she paid for my ... [snip!] ... out. because they aren't OBLIGATED to help me, so I don't get upset if they have to run errands instead of babysitting my kid)"

I understand all that. I think we agree we should help others if it's not at detriment to ourselves? but then someone, others, you even? disagreed with the word "should" in this. Should is obligation to me, so then that would mean you do not feel you should help others. that is the part that throws me a little, as by the description you must feel some drive to help otherwise you wouldn't do it.

The meal was in reference to your inlaws helping you, beyond just childcare for the appointment. An example of helping someone in another way you think you could, rather than just a strikingly obvious need.

ok, off to bed now!

Quoting Satan:" Time for herself is a need, sure. But that's why we hire babysitters. If all you need is a break...and ... [snip!] ... is a small amount of money and all you have is one child to have sat...then you spend your money on a sitter and take a walk."

If someone is trying to have another child i would guess they probably could afford a sitter and they could prioritize that. Does that mean the family member shouldn't help them out with childcare when they can, because it's possible/easier for them to just have a sitter do it? Is looking after someones kids an obligation though, or shouldn't they want to spend time with them?

What about the person who can't pay for a sitter? (or in my case, can't walk either   ) should someone help out then, or it that expecting too much?
Thanks for teaching me about acceptable social behaviour ;)

Quoting Mama*AtoZ:" But in your situation for example, you've said it's so demanding that you're alone with your child all ... [snip!] ... I know what i'm thinking here, but my kid went to bed 6 hours ago and i have a headache so i'm loosing my self here lol"

Time away from my child is a WANT, not a need.
Needs are:
Food
Shelter
Electricity
Water
Gas/Transportation (within reason)
Medical needs
Clothing (within reason)

I do not feel it is a necessity, so I don't ask for help with it. Its NICE, but while I might feel like I'm gonna lose it after a couple of weeks with no break at all, I'm not actually going to. When I need me time, I don't ask others to provide it, I have a day where I wear him the hell OUT (beach, zoo, park all day, etc), so I know he'll go to bed easily and I make a dinner that I know he won't fight (pizza, spaghetti, tacos, etc) and put him to bed early and take a bubble bath and read a smut book or call my best friend and yack at her for an hour or two (or invite her over if its possible with her 6 hours away and then we have a girls night IN after he's in bed!).

And my best friend is amazing because when she's over, she offers to do his bathtime routine so that I can clean up the house for the evening (or vice versa) so that once he's in bed, the work is DONE and I can chill out! I'd never ask her to do it, but I LOVE that she does it and I give her big hugs and gush over it and thank her by making her a tasty adult beverage and offering her the remote  

Quoting Mama*AtoZ:" But in your situation for example, you've said it's so demanding that you're alone with your child all ... [snip!] ... I know what i'm thinking here, but my kid went to bed 6 hours ago and i have a headache so i'm loosing my self here lol"

You can have emotional needs too. Emotional support, for example.

I do not think that mental disorders (such as depression, suicidal tendencies, etc) are going to go away if I buy someone lunch or babysit their kid. That's about communication and being a good listener. I also think that mental issues have nothing to do with your life situation. Plenty of people don't need help because they have plenty of money and friends, but are depressed anyway---its not just a simple social issue because they don't have the right kind of friends.

If someone kills themselves, its not the fault of those around them for not helping them enough. Depression is just that way---you close out those who care about you most because you sometimes don't feel you deserve that caring, etc. Its a vicious cycle that is no one's fault. It won't be medicated away with monetary gifts, free babysitters, or frozen casseroles for their family.

Quoting Mama*AtoZ:" If someone is trying to have another child i would guess they probably could afford a sitter and they ... [snip!] ...   ) should someone help out then, or it that expecting too much? Thanks for teaching me about acceptable social behaviour ;)"

I dunno.
I rarely ask anyone for help.
I haven't had a babysitter for a fun reason in YEARS.
The only time i have a "sitter" is when my friend comes to visit and she wants to go out and do smurf.
She usually brings her kids and leaves them to watch mine.
(they're teenagers)...and i save up money so that i can pay them since i feel bad.
I can't leave my husband with my kids. (Epilepsy)
If i go somewhere..we ALL have to go.

Quoting Satan:" Time for herself is a need, sure. But that's why we hire babysitters. If all you need is a break...and ... [snip!] ... is a small amount of money and all you have is one child to have sat...then you spend your money on a sitter and take a walk."

AMEN!

If I have a genuine need for time to myself, I hire a sitter or arrange with a friend to trade babysitting (so we're paying each other), or offer to compensate someone to babysit (as opposed to askign them to do it as a favor).

And you can arrange your own "me" time if you're creative enough, all without relying on someone else! You can be very self sufficient without suffering   I still get everything I need to do done, even having pretty toes and reading my books   Hell, I have even figured out how to sneak in a nap when I REALLY need it  

Quoting FroggysMommy:" I disagree... I think adults/parents do deserve vacations without their kids every so often, especially ... [snip!] ... family were very important ideals of my family and I just can't get past the mindset that other families don't believe that."

Yeah... no. I'm sorry but you really sound like a spoiled brat right now. Lots of people bust their ass and don't get any help from the outside, makes you no different. Grandparents aren't obligated to do smurf with or for your kids. Nice if they do, but nothing to get upset about. They weren't there laying down while someone got plowed and made the decision to make a baby. They aren't obligated to help.

IMO this is a decision YOU made. YOU and no one else but the other person who made the baby. This involves YOU. You want to go on vacation? You hire someone to watch your kids, you don't expect the grandparents/aunts/uncles to drop their lives and watch them so you can go off to la la land for a week (and, btw, Vegas is VERY child friendly and I can reccomend an awesome sitter service  )

If they weren't in the bed accepting/ giving the sperm to give the child life they have no obligation to help you with the child. Period.

Quoting Mama*AtoZ:" I understand all that. I think we agree we should help others if it's not at detriment to ourselves? ... [snip!] ... of helping someone in another way you think you could, rather than just a strikingly obvious need. ok, off to bed now!"

I don't think we "SHOULD" except 100% by choice.

The difference is that if I refuse to help someone (for whatever my own personal reason is, even if I don't tell that person my reason.), they do NOT have the right to pitch a fit about me not helping them because I am not OBLIGATED to help them.

Like the OP ranting because her SO's family doesn't want to watch her son so she can go on vacation (even though its only for a small portion of the trip). So what? They don't HAVE to watch him. So, don't throw a fit about them not helping, just make other plans---they have the right to say no if they want, for ANY reason!

Just like if I had an appointment coming up and my MIL couldn't watch him, I'd say "can you watch him another day? I'll try to change the appointment". If she says "i'd prefer not to watch him anymore" I'd be a little sad that she didn't want to spend time with him, but I wouldn't go off on a rant, I'd just find another baby sitter and try to talk to her about WHY she doesn't want to watch him (its inconvenient, if he's misbehaving, etc) so that I could try to encourage them to have a good relationship that they both enjoy without obligating her to have him if she didn't want to.

Quoting Satan:" I dunno. I rarely ask anyone for help. I haven't had a babysitter for a fun reason in YEARS. The only ... [snip!] ... that i can pay them since i feel bad. I can't leave my husband with my kids. (Epilepsy) If i go somewhere..we ALL have to go."

We get a sitter once in a while for fun. We have no family in the area so we swap services with other parents. We've never had a night without our kids, though and we bust our ass. I don't think we "deserve" time away from our kids, that's the choice we made when we had kids: to take care of them. "Deserve" is such an entitled word.

Quoting Mama*AtoZ:"If someone is trying to have another child i would guess they probably could afford a sitter and they could prioritize that. Does that mean the family member shouldn't help them out with childcare when they can, because it's possible/easier for them to just have a sitter do it? Is looking after someones kids an obligation though, or shouldn't they want to spend time with them?

What about the person who can't pay for a sitter? (or in my case, can't walk either ) should someone help out then, or it that expecting too much?
Thanks for teaching me about acceptable social behaviour ;)"

IF the family CHOOSES to, they should watch him if they want. In my situation, my family OFFERED to watch him. And even if you do want to spend time with the child, its still a bit of a burden to feed them, entertain them, clean up after them, and take time out of your own schedule (especially for those who work or have other kids) to watch someone else's child. My FIL LOVES spending time with my son, but when its time for me to come back, he is ready to hand him back over to me and let me be in charge so he can go back to 100% fun-mode and just play! He loves to take him fishing when I'm at a doctor's appointment, but watching a kid is WORK too, not just all fun and games! There's discipline, potty training, etc too!

And if someone can't afford a sitter, why do they need one? To go out drinking with their friends? To go to work? To take a nap? Can they offer other non-monetary compensation (like trading babysitting?). I don't mind watching somoene's kid every once in a while without compensation, but if its not an emergency situation, some form of compensation is only fair whether its trading sitting, picking up my drycleaning (that I pay for, of course), or dropping something at the post office, etc. The split doesn't have to be equal, of course, just more of a "I appreciate you helping me, so I want to help you or make it easier for you"

But like I said, there should never be an OBLIGATION to help someone. If I had a friend who was a single mom and she was disabled with a high-needs child, I'd try to help her when and how I could with babysitting, dinners for the family, taking the kids to practices for her, running errands for her while I was out doing my own, etc---but not if she doesn't help me back every once in a while. Its a trade off, even when one friend needs a different kind of help or more help than the other! That's what friendship is, give AND take in a balance that works for the two particular people in that relationship. It can't only be one-sided! Just because one person's situation is seemingly more difficult than mine doesn't mean I HAVE to help them or that I "SHOULD" help them---just that they might need help if I am able to give it.

Quoting Fatty McRunnerPants:" We get a sitter once in a while for fun. We have no family in the area so we swap services with other ... [snip!] ... time away from our kids, that's the choice we made when we had kids: to take care of them. "Deserve" is such an entitled word."

I DESERVE a lot of things I don't get (and one is probably a swift kick in the pants now and then)---but we dont' all get what we want, need, OR deserve.

I can live with that. Life just doesn't work that way. FACT.

You live with what you've got and provide for yourself and be self-sufficient and take any outside help you get from anyone (including your SO) as the GIFT that it is and be thankful and gracious about it!