re: Failed Kingarden

Quoting red_dragon_girl_69:“ The responsibility of diagnosing mental problems does not fall solely on the school. If my child was ... [snip!] ... have adhd" I would talk to a counseler or the doctor about why my child is being mean to the other kids and/or falling behind.”

while it might not fall completely on the school to diagnose the child not every person realizes their child is not acting like all other kids. some parents believe their child is great and do not see the imperfections, which is not always a negative thing for the parents to do. but the school teachers are more trained in pointing out problems and should be able to refer out to diagnose. this is what they are getting PAID for. most school counselors have never had a diagnosing class b/c it is not required but they are still aware of the warning signs. i have had one b/c i am also a clinical counseling major. and even as a parent i don't know if i would be able to look at my daughter and not see her behavior as just being a normal part of development for a child her age.

and why should she tell her son that he doesn't get to pass kindergarden b/c he can't comprehend things as fast as the other kids? how would you like it if your mommy told you at 5 that you failed something? 

She said the teacher told her that her son was picking on other kids. If repeated talks about picking on other kids yeilds no result, then you talk to a counseler. You dont let it continue all year. As for not telling him why he failed, lying is better??? I would be very upset if my mom told me that I was "so good" at a grade that they wanted me to stay there and then found out that it was a lie. He should be told some form of the truth. Not be told that he is so great at it that they want him to stay behind. What happens when he doesnt get held back in first grade? Oh, well, he must not have been so great at that. How do you think he would feel when he doesnt get held back for other grades? He will think he wasnt doing a good job because when you are good at it you do it again. Also, other kids WILL talk. Other kids will tell him why he failed. It is better when it comes from your mom in a nice way than from an older kid saying "HAHA you failed kindergarten. Your stupid".

Quoting cassondrahumphrey:“ while it might not fall completely on the school to diagnose the child not every person realizes their ... [snip!] ... comprehend things as fast as the other kids? how would you like it if your mommy told you at 5 that you failed something?”

I'm sorry but that is bull shit... Teachers are paid to TEACH your child, not to diagnose your kid with some ailment... That's for a doctor to do... You know, someone who specializes in things like that... Not a Teacher.

and there are signs of having ADHD and if it runs in the family, you should have your kid tested... it's not for the school to decide who has it and who doesn't...

Quoting cassondrahumphrey:“ i can't believe everyone is jumping down your throat for asking for simple advice about your son getting ... [snip!] ... he did such a good job in kindergarden they want him there again so he can learn double the stuff and he will already be ahead.”

I am an ADD adult, who was a severely ADD child- obviously because I am currently pregnant I am not taking medication- but to give you an idea of how truly problematic my disorder was and is, I STILL take 60mgs a day of ritilan- and my life is greatly complicated without it. I am not sure if you read my story about how I was diagnosed with ADD- but it was a teacher calling my mother to tell her that she felt that I needed to be in a special education class because she was concerned that I was mentally challenged... My grades were horrible and my behavior with other kids was not exactly normal either.
IT WAS MY MOTHER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE ME TO A PROFESSIONAL COUNSELOR AND HAVE ME EVALUATED AND DIAGNOSED AS ADD... NOT THE SCHOOL'S.
I was 9 years old.
ADD is NOT a handicap- its a challenge, but its NOT a disability.
Once I was put on meds- the challenge became- "How do we teach her skills to control herself and make her aware of social behavior"
and that ALSO fell on my parents.

To go from the 9 year old little girl who a teacher suspected was retarded, to a 16 year old in a college class on a dual seal that allowed me to completely skip my senior year and part of my junior-
You tell me...
Is that some magic worked by the school???
Because I know what kind of blood, sweat and tears were poured for me.
And I am no dumb bunny today either- I have a bachelor's degree, I have lots of extended education is seperate feilds from my degree... I am still learning and always will... I LOVE to learn... but someone had to teach me HOW to learn first.

My mother would cry watching me try to do my homework- she would sit at the table with me, and we had to come up with a system. I was good for no more than 15 minutes at a time... so I had 15 minutes doing work... 5 minutes wandering around the house doing something else... 15 minutes back to the table 5 minutes wandering around the house.... 15 minutes back to the table- and thats just ONE of the ways that we had to alter my learning behaviors... Cleaning my room was traumatic- We had to take string and section the room off hanging the string from wall to wall- so that I had small segments that could be cleaned in 20 minutes or less- otherwise it could never get done. I would fall apart and cry because I literally COULD NOT figure out how to start cleaning otherwise. I would be frustrated, and angry....
My mother has a master's degree in education- and has taught for nearly 40 years... and when the counselor looked at her and said "Your kid is not retarded. She has Attention Deficit Disorder...Look at her... she cannot focus if she is not directly focused on." my mother did not believe in ADD... It was not until she saw from MY level what was happening in my world that she saw it was real. It had to be called to her attention that something just wasn't right... and after that, she was the one who had to make it her business to set me straight.

Creatively trying to find a way to capture a kid's attention is hard- having a child with ADD is tough. Mainly because you have to work hard to outsmart your kid.
BUT- A teacher in a classroom of 30 is there for the greater good of the classroom... NOT the greater good of one person in the class.
If a child falls behind the other kids, she should call the parent, and it then becomes the parents responsibility to find out whats wrong and to work with the teacher to catch that child up to the group.

You may be just shy of a degree in counseling, but I am here to tell you that as an ADD kid who has grown into a relatively successful adult- I wouldn't have gotten there without my parents.
There were fights, tears, punishments, rewards, conversations, discusssions, bribes, blackmail, anything and everything you can think of happened in finding what works for me.
And no teacher in a classroom has the time to do that for every single child in the classroom.

THAT is what a parent is for.

And telling a parent that its not their fault- that no matter how much they work with their kid, that their kid is just disabled because of the diagnosis of ADD- is a disservice to your position as a counselor.

I am walking proof that a child with ADD can be successful. Its not easy- but its do-able, and its not possible without the parent working with the kid at home.

wow 
not everyone knows what to look for in a child with adhd. and meds are there to help. most people with adhd can not function in a classroom without the meds and until those meds are given they will not be able to function in the classroom. i do not look at any mental disorder as a handicap for any person. i have seen many kids just as a sub who have transformed from a kid that can not function in a class to a kid that is on medication that is doing great but still needs additional guidance. just because a person has adhd does not mean they are dumb at all. my professor in grad school has adhd, and he has told us how hard regular school was for him until he learned to manage it through different means. he now has a phd and was told during high school he was too dumb to do anything other than be a janitor.

the school counselors are trained to help learn the warning signs and help point the parent in the right direction for additional resources in helping them to learn how to better deal with their child with adhd. 
most schools also have school psychs who can do the diagnosis at no charge to the parents b/c a lot of people can not afford to take their kids to a counselor who just for an intake interview can cost $200 and is not always covered by insurance even though i know there are agencies out there that do it for cheaper. 
she did say her kid was doing better on meds and i said that without the meds her kid would probably continue to have problems. and i have never been a big believer in medicating kids, that is not the theory of therapy i follow.

Quoting cassondrahumphrey:“ wow not everyone knows what to look for in a child with adhd. and meds are there to help. most people ... [snip!] ... continue to have problems. and i have never been a big believer in medicating kids, that is not the theory of therapy i follow.”

Exactly, so if you think that you kid has adhd, then take them to a doctor for the proper Diagnosis... A teacher is NOT qualified to make that discision about any child... all they can do it talk to the parent.. It's the PARENTS responsibility to act on that, not the teachers or the schools.

Someschools do have Psychologist... but MOST do not because they don't have a budget for that kind of thing... It is still not on the school to make sure that kids are diagnosed properly... that is up to the parent to follow through and get THEIR kid the help they need... not the schools fault or problem.

Iwas a former teacher and Kindergarten is not required by law for a child to take. The school gets money for each Kindergartener. He actually could go to first grade. However, I wouldn't recommend it if your family isn't going to work diligently to get him caught up. It might actually make him lose disinterest in school. It is sooo important to work with your children before Kinder. This may sound mean, but teachers can tell right off the bat if a child will do well in school or not. They really need enthusiatic parents, because really it is the parents responsibility to teach their children overall, not the teacher. A teacher has 30 other students to also worry about. (sorry for spelling errors, I just got nails!) Maybe even you as a mother taking a grammar class at a community college might help. It might show that you want to learn more because learning is fun! Just really encourage your son. The worst thing, is to exasperrate them so they don't want to go to school. Make each time with him count. Show him his address outside. Have him write it and draw your house. He needs to know words also like cat and so on. Help him spell wherever you go. Point out colors and shapes. Good luck!

Quoting bobbicleaver:“ Iwas a former teacher and Kindergarten is not required by law for a child to take. The school gets money ... [snip!] ... house. He needs to know words also like cat and so on. Help him spell wherever you go. Point out colors and shapes. Good luck!”

He does know all of that and so far he can spell and write and far as me going to college there would be now way my husband works 3 shift and sleeps all day and we also have a 2 yr old and i have learned from my experince with my oldest one so i am working with him as well and yes i do work with my 5 yr old all the time. and i do regert not puting my oldest son in preschool but there weere problems in my family. and i just found out today my cousions little boy has been in preschool for 2 yrs and can only count to 12 so you tell me whats up with that is that his paretns fault aslo that he cant count ?

I'm sorry Christy, I'm a little confused. I just read the first page because there are 10 pages of this topic all together. I got the understanding that your Kinder couldn't read because he failed Kinder. I just gave some simple suggestions on different ways on how to teach them in everyday settings. But you can adjust them however you want. If he already knows his shapes, then you can take it to the next level by having them spell the shapes and so on. I understand about your husband working. My husbandputs out forest fires. He travels the nation for 6 months during fire season. I still do the best that I can. I get a sitter and take classes at Michaels, for me. I don't have any of my kids in preschool. I have 3 kids at home with me and 1 in school. I have chosen to stay home with them, so I can teach them things. As for your cousins little boy, I'm sorry but it is his parents fault. Even though he was in preschool and they excpected to get their money's worth by the teachers actually teaching him, after the first few months you can kind of tell if that is the school you want him at or not. I did have my two oldest in preschool at one point and after a ton of recess time, art projects and snacks, I decided I wasn't getting my moneys worth. Instead of taking them somewhere else, I decided I was going to be there for them.

Quoting 22 DAYS!!!:“ i am not insinuating that she is too dumb to help him...just that it may be her weakness....maybe ... [snip!] ... let him start kindergarten yet, his b-day falls short of the deadline...i am afraid he is going to be bored as well... ”

You are contradicting yourself... You said previously she has/does do everything that she can in order to help him... now you're saying maybe she's not able to help him because its her weakness?!... make up your mind

Quoting Christy61607:“ just to let you yes I do make my son do all of his home work every day he has home work and yes I do ... [snip!] ... me was that was the first time he was able to seat there and do all of his work so you guys tell me what the hell that means”

I told you days ago the difference between SEAT and SIT and yet you still can't use the words correctly....

SITTING is an action, its something you do on a SEAT.

When you want to say something about people who SIT there and say this and that, then please use the word SIT and not SEAT.

Its really not that hard.

Quoting red_dragon_girl_69:“ Oh, and dont lie to the kid and tell him he did so good in kindergarten that they want him to stay there. ... [snip!] ... he did such a good job, when he realizes that it wanst because of that, how will be able to trust anything else you say?”

  

Quoting cassondrahumphrey:“ while it might not fall completely on the school to diagnose the child not every person realizes their ... [snip!] ... comprehend things as fast as the other kids? how would you like it if your mommy told you at 5 that you failed something?”

I would rather be told the truth than lied to. Especially since when I got older the truth more than likely would come out and it would hurt my feelings worse then.

Also, the OP doesn't have to say the word "failed"... She can simply say, "TJ you didn't do as well as the other kids so you're not moving forward to first grade this year. You're going to do kindergarten again so you can learn what you need for next year.".

No where in there is the word failed and I'm pretty sure that's straight forward and easy enough for a 5 year old to understand.

Quoting MommyMeri:“ I am an ADD adult, who was a severely ADD child- obviously because I am currently pregnant I am not ... [snip!] ... ADD can be successful. Its not easy- but its do-able, and its not possible without the parent working with the kid at home.”