re: Pillow Angel

Quoting LJH:“ ”

There's some truth to what you say, yes.

I can see both sides of this issue.

I can understand that the parents made the decision that they believe is best for them and their child, and I understand why it is necessary to stunt the growth because the girl will always be a child mentally and needs care that is difficult to give to an adult; but I also see why people would see surgery that has been done illegally, especially when there are other non surgical routes that could possibly have been pursued (we only have this article to go by, we have no idea of any of the other circumstances, etc), in a negative light.

C.

i saw something on tv once about a family, man and woman dwarfs, who were pregnant and chose to have the unborn baby injected through the womb so it would also have the dwarfism disease, it was some talk show and im trying to fnid something about it on the net and not having much luck, but i wonder why it wasnt illegal for them to do so to a fetus if it is illegal to do so to a born child

and by the way, that is LAZINESS on their part, doing that to make it easier on them, why not put her up for adoption, or hell murder her for that matter, idiot bastards

Quoting shea butter:“ that is LAZINESS on their part, doing that to make it easier on them, why not put her up for adoption, or hell murder her for that matter, idiot bastards”

Wow. You are extremely ignorant of the situation. Have you stopped to think about this, or are you just jumping to conclusions because you have nothing better to do than bash people who are trying to make their daughter's life more comfortable and active? My son who is severely disabled (can't talk, walk, roll over, sit up, crawl, feed himself, etc) is only almost 3 yrs old, and weighs about 35 pounds. It is already difficult for me to carry him (as he is dead weight), bathe him, etc etc. Can you imagine what it will be like when he's a teenager or adult? It will be impossible. So what's the alternative - put him in an institution? Where he can be ignored, abused, uncomfortable, and away from those who love him? Ashley has the mind of a baby - and babies want to be held, carried, and cuddled by their parents, not put aside and taken care of by strangers. You have to consider the fact that as a child like this gets bigger, there are other health risks that develop - pressure sores, contractures, joint problems, joint dislocation, etc. And why should a baby have to endure monthly menstrual pain? She would not understand why she is going through such pain.

It is incredibly harsh of you to call them lazy, suggest they give her up for adoption, or liken what they did to murder. Did you even try to put yourself in their shoes or to imagine what Ashley's life is like?

god made her that way for a reason, maybe the parents needed to leave her the way God made her, instead of medically altering her, it said she would have only grown 1 more foot, whats the difference in holing a 4'3 baby as opposed to a 5'3 baby/child, no im not ignorant but thanks anyway, i feel you get the hand that god deals you and its your job to deal with it accordingly,not stunting her growth to make it easier on the parents, thats why i say if you are gonna mess with God's work why not take the life you created as God does, i never said it wasnt hard on them but thats the hand they were given, i do know someone who is handicapped, he is mentally and physically handicapped and he has thirhoid problems and weighs about 300 lbs and his mother struggles lifting him to bathe him or relocate him from his wheelchair to sit outside or what have you, but she does it by herself, a single mother, she has been given this child by God and accepts him for who he is, which is not what they have done, that is not who she is, they medically altered her for their convienance, not the menstral thing i didnt complain about

so yes i can imagine what it would be like when she is a teenager i have witnessed it first hand, thanks 

They did not do it for their own convenience. They did it for her comfort and happiness. If they were so concerned about their own convenience they would have put her in an instiution already.

As I said before, there are MEDICAL reasons for why a person such as Ashley would benefit from being smaller.

The person you described whose son is 300 pounds...that's very unfortunate. How much more comfortable would he be if he didn't have all of that weight pressing down on his bones, joints, ligaments, and internal organs?

You keep saying "they were given a child by God and should accept her for who she it". So if your child had a heart condition that could be solved by an operation, you wouldn't do it because that's how your child was given to you by God? If your child develops diabetes you wouldn't treat it with insulin because God made her with a faulty pancreas, so who are you to interfere?`` If your child was born with a cleft palate, you would not fix it because "that's how God made her"?

Quoting LJH:“ They did not do it for their own convenience. They did it for her comfort and happiness. If they were ... [snip!] ... who are you to interfere?`` If your child was born with a cleft palate, you would not fix it because "that's how God made her"?”

Fixing a cleft palate and altering somebodys body is completley different.
These parent removed the breast buds. When you fix a cleft palatte you are reparing a defect.

I am kinda on the fence with this one.

I understand why they did it because basically it would improve her quality of life in some ways. It is easier to care for a child then a adult in that state therefore it would not be hard to find care for them either if say somethign were to happen to the parents.A person needs lots of movement to avoid bed sores and overall keep them more comfortable and healthy which means a smaller person is less likely to develope those problems. She wont have to go through the "pain" that comes with menstral cycles when she cant express when she needs somethign to help cope with the pain like sayMidol. Also having her breast removed can prevent her from developing breast cancer (if say it runs n the family) therefore less medical needed in the long run.Its not just easier on them but the child as well because the child is able to get better care if they are smaller.

Now on the other hand surgery is alot of risk and its not something I think I could force someone to go through if theydont need it esspecially my child.However, someone with physical deformities doesn't "need" corrective surgery to live (in most cases) butdoes improve quality of life.I still dont think I could do what they did but if they truely believe the child will have a better life this way and no one can really prove they wont then I cant condem them for their decision either.

Quoting Noelles Mama:“ Fixing a cleft palate and altering somebodys body is completley different. These parent removed the breast buds. When you fix a cleft palatte you are reparing a defect.”

A defect? Ashley has a severe brain "defect", and there is nothing wrong withintervening to make her happier and more comfortable. How is this different than fixing a cleft palate? Or heart murmur? Or diabetes? They are all defects.

What does a 3 month old need large breasts for?

Keep in mind too that in the past most of these children wouldn't have survived until adulthood, and those that did, ended up dying in early adulthood due to poor care in group homes or institutions.

Quoting LJH:“ A defect? Ashley has a severe brain "defect", and there is nothing wrong withintervening to make her ... [snip!] ... until adulthood, and those that did, ended up dying in early adulthood due to poor care in group homes or institutions.”

You are comparing two things that are complete opposites.

I'm not condemning her parents for doing this to her, I wouldn't have done it to my child. I see it as an unnecessary surgery.

You have a different POV on this subject which is fine. But dont come on here and bash those women who have a different POV than yours. And the next time you want to compare things, try comparing things that are similar. Because cleft palette surgery is ALOT different than this surgery that these parents FORCED their daughter to go through.

And I also wanted to point out LJH, that cleft palette surgery is something that the child would later on want to have done or re-correct.

Why do you think that this surgery is so controversial and why the doctor and parents have to go to court first to get it approved. What they did was technically illegal.

I think the parents have every right to choose that for thier child. I feel like the fact that the girl is to remain small and not have to deal with the uncomfort of mentrual cycles and even breasts (if they grew to be very large they would be very uncomfortable) is a reasonable want for those parents. They want thier daughter to be as comfortable as possible, and they also want to make their care of her easier and more comfortable. Whats so wrong with that?

now this is where you can disagree with me and bash me, i believe that the life we are given presently is a direct result from a past life, i feel the parents are living a life that they need to lesson from, and the child is their lesson, now you go and alter your lesson and you alter your ultimatedemise of your lesson, and as an end result you do not learn from previous mistakes (past life) but are makingyour present lifemore convienant for you to live and are not progressing to further yourself deem worthy of the higher power, therefore they are not progressing to better themselves but instead regressing to old (past) habbits

now go ahead and give me your science balogna but ultimately what you do now will reflect of how you live later (future life)

i wont argue about this because this is how i feel and most will not understand my way of thinking

but just becuase you yourself have a handicapped child does not make you right or wrong
and just because i believe in something you dont doesnt make me right or wrong

it was wrong for me to call them idiot bastards and it was wrong for you to say i was ignorant to their situation

imay beignorant to their situation,but they are ignorant to my beliefs, but either way that doesnt make any of us wrong or right

i apologize for my temper on the subject but i think they are wrong, but who am i to judge

they will be judged soon enough for what they have done and not by my hands

I take care of mentally handicapped patients that have various diseases, and the ones who are larger have a harder time keeping healthy. I understand why her family would do this. The whole situation is sad, and I could see why people would have a problem with it, but I feel that everyone needs to do what they feel is right for their child. No period, menstral cramps, and no big breasts to get in the way would make it easier for her and her caregivers to give her the proper care she deserves.

Quoting Noelles Mama:“ And I also wanted to point out LJH, that cleft palette surgery is something that the child would later ... [snip!] ... and why the doctor and parents have to go to court first to get it approved. What they did was technically illegal.”

Ok,you've latched on to the cleft palate example,but you made no mention of any of the other points I and others have made. And perhaps "next time" people shouldn't come on here and BASH these parents for doing what they could to help their daughterwhois like a 3 month old in all respects, including mentally. So you're saying that others can bash people (saying they're selfish, lazy, should be put in jail, horrible people, etc etc) as long as it matches your view. I admit that I have reacted emotionally, but that does not detract from the fact that there was bashing going on from the other side long before I got here. I just don't like to see people kicked when they're down.

My son is severely disabled, can't walk, crawl, sit up, talk, feed himself, etc. But he is happy because he is surrounded by people who love him and who shower him with attention. Would it be better for him to be institutionalized because we can no longer care for him at home? That would be devastating to him. For him to be in a place where they come and turn him a couple of times a day, if we're lucky, and give him the bare minimum of care. He would most likely be put on a feeding tube (we feed him orally but it takes a lot of time that an institution would not take). That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
She can now remain with those who love her instead of being put away to be neglected by strangers in an institution. She will be happy and comfortable. Quality of life is more important than whether or not she one dayshe has the ability to conceive a baby. She IS a baby, mentally and skills-wise, and will always remain so.

Sotell me how this has negatively impacted her. Give me some examples of how this has harmed her.