The origins of man (biblical)...

I am prefacing this post with a few notes:

1) These are questions that I have thus far been able to receive a satisfactory answer for from those who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible (i.e. The Bible is the literal word of God, and thus everything written in the bible is literally true).

2) I am seeking actual answers. If your response is "you have to have faith" or something along those lines, please refrain from answering. While you may certainly believe that, and I respect your right to do so, it is irrelevant to my questions.

3) This is not an attack on Christianity. To question the validity of something is not an attack. There are very serious questions that are raised if the Bible is to be taken as literally and factually true.

I would like a serious, intellectual discourse on how the passages I am going to cite can possibly be literally true, given their contradictory nature. If someone who believes in the inerrancy of the Bible can provide a rational, logical explanation, I am more than willing to listen and discuss it.

I am citing from the King James Version for the purposes of this post.

With regards to the origin of man, I have two main questions:

Question One

Genesis 1

[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
<snip>
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2

[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
[4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
[5] And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
[6] But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
<snip>
[15] And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
<snip>
[18] And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
[19] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
[20] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
[21] And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
[22] And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
[23] And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Note the passages that are in bold.

Genesis 1 24:25 - God makes the animals.
Genesis 1 26:27 - God makes "man in his image" -- specifying male AND female.
Genesis 1 31 - Sixth day of creation
Genesis 2 1:3 - God finished his creations - Seventh day of creation
Genesis 2 5 - There is no man on earth (despite being created in Genesis 27) to till the ground
Genesis 2 7: - God makes man from the earth.
Genesis 2 18 - God decides man should not be alone.
Genesis 2 19:20 - In an attempt to find a "help meet" for man, God makes the animals (again)
Genesis 2 21:23 - God makes woman from Adam's rib.

So, my question is:

How is it possible, if the bible is literally true, that God made the animals, then man and woman at the same time, on the sixth day, declares that he's done creating on the seventh day, then realizes there's no man on earth, makes man again, then makes animals again, then makes woman again. I am open to any suggestions as to how this can be literally possible.

Question Two

Genesis 4

[1] And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
[2] And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
<snip>
[16] And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
[17] And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Genesis 4 1:2 - Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel, bringing the total peoples on earth to four.
Genesis 4 17 - Cain leaves for the land of Nod.
Genesis 4 18 - Cain finds a wife and has Enoch.

My question is:

If Adam and Eve have two children, bringing the total number of human inhabitants of earth to four, how does Cain find a wife in Nod to procreate with? I am open to any suggestions as to how this can be literally possible.

Again, I state that I am looking for someone who can offer logical suggestions as to how these questions can possibly be true. If someone can offer a suggestion that is logically sound, I am willing to listen.

C.

I would like to know as well...I have heard a few different things regarding who did Cain and Able procreate with...one thing I have heard is that they slept with Eve...I don't remember where/who told me that but it just seemed wrong to me, and if I am not mistaken, isn't incest stated as wrong in the Bible as well? Also, the other thing that I have heard, which makes more sense, is that God does not mention all people he creates, and that there were more that just weren't spoken of....

I dunno, I was brought up Chrisitan and to believe verything in the Bible but I can not..I need facts, proof, or just anything that remotely makes sense which the Bible does not to me...I feel bad for saying that though...and I have tried to force myself to believe in God but I cannot...my mind keeps telling me otherwise so I find it hard to believe that I am going to go to hell for something I can not control....even if I tell myself to believe, I know deep down it seems too farfetched for me and I can't help it... I know the last part is not what you asked for but I kinda just kept going lol...I just like to say this to myself...The Bible could be 100 percent true, or 100 percent false...but I will never know so to say I know one way or the other is foolish in my opinion...I think havng faith in something just makes people feel better about the afterlife..which I have no clue as to what that is!! but I am curious to see some answers!!!

I'm not quite sure about question one but if I come up with an answer I'll give it to you.

The second question is simple. What the bible doesn't say is that Adam and Eve have more children than just Able and Cain. The bible also mentions another son was born to Adam and Eve after Able was murdered: his name was Seth. It seems pretty logical to me that Cain's wife was his sister.

It specifically says though that Cain went to Nod and found a wife, which implies that there are people in this Nod place.

C.

carysehlwinn wrote: It specifically says though that Cain went to Nod and found a wife, which implies that there are people in this Nod place.

C.

It doesn't say that he met her there, only that he went there and that's where they concieved their first child.

That is true.

It still leaves the question of why it's not mentioned in the Bible.

C.

carysehlwinn wrote: That is true.

It still leaves the question of why it's not mentioned in the Bible.

C.

Women's births with I believe the exception of the Virgin Mary are not mentioned because they were not precieved to be important neither were marriages unless they were of royalty.

I can't answer the first question, (as of yet..  I have a better translation than King James packed away around here somewhere. Truthfully, King James Versions confuse me to no end. I need it dumbed down for me. haha.)

But as far as the 2nd question goes, I was always under the impression that God didn't STOP creating man after Adam & Eve. They were just the first.

as far as the second question...from what i understand from growing up (personally now i don't care if the bible is true or not) but I was taught that Adam and Eve had allot of kids (though not many mentioned in the bible....but since they lived like 900 years Cain could have married a neice or sister etc etc.
as time went on the family spread out etc etc.

my question is in Lot's time....why is it ok in the bible that Lot offered up his daughters to the rapists instead of the strangers (angels)
no you can't rape my guests....but here is my daughters instead!! ????????
and then after Lots wife was turned to salt...and Lot and his daughters were hiding in the mountains...Lots Daughters had sex with him....how is that ok? that's what I want to know!

the same thing that lot did (offering up his daughters to be gang-raped)... was once again accounted for in the travels of anonymous priest in chapter 19 of the book of judges.

basically, an unnamed levite priest and his concubine were passed through the town of gibeah and a nice old man took them in. apparently, the men of gibeah felt the need for some man-lovin' and beat on the door of the house demanding that the priest come out so "that they may know him."

the old man was like, "no, no, here have my virgin daughter and his concubine, but don't sodomize this nice gentleman visitor." so the poor women were given over to the men for a fatal night of gang-raping.

ah, the bible is a fine place to derive one's morals from. homosexuality is WRONG, but hey, you feelin' horny still? go ahead, rape and kill a virgin-- it'll be almost as good!

Mara wrote: the same thing that lot did (offering up his daughters to be gang-raped)... was once again accounted for in the travels of anonymous priest in chapter 19 of the book of judges.

basically, an unnamed levite priest and his concubine were passed through the town of gibeah and a nice old man took them in. apparently, the men of gibeah felt the need for some man-lovin' and beat on the door of the house demanding that the priest come out so "that they may know him."

the old man was like, "no, no, here have my virgin daughter and his concubine, but don't sodomize this nice gentleman visitor." so the poor women were given over to the men for a fatal night of gang-raping.

ah, the bible is a fine place to derive one's morals from. homosexuality is WRONG, but hey, you feelin' horny still? go ahead, rape and kill a virgin-- it'll be almost as good!

THAT'S what I'm sayin!
I am glad I am not the only one who see's it that way.

This whole thing honestly just pisses me off.

I'm not even going to answer anything. It was written in complete disrespect and as a Christian I don't appreciate it. You say its not an attack but quite honestly it feels like it.

GinaKate1027 wrote: This whole thing honestly just pisses me off.

I'm not even going to answer anything. It was written in complete disrespect and as a Christian I don't appreciate it. You say its not an attack but quite honestly it feels like it.

You're entitled to your opinions.

However, I don't understand why it is that religion is considered by some something that is not allowed to be questioned. ESPECIALLY in the debate/discussion forum.

If the bible is to be taken literally, there ARE contradictions. I am asking if anyone can explain them, and if they can, I am more than willing to listen.

It was not written in disrespect, these are valid questions, whether or not you would like to answer them.

Believing what I believe, I come under constant scrutiny from people, not just what I believe, but me myself, yet I never construe it as an attack.

No religion is "untouchable". Everything in life is open to question, that's how we learn and evolve. I have asked for a serious debate, to answer questions that I have had since I was a child and was Catholic, and read the bible cover-to-cover.

I make no apologies for my interest in this subject.

C.

GinaKate1027 wrote: This whole thing honestly just pisses me off.

I'm not even going to answer anything. It was written in complete disrespect and as a Christian I don't appreciate it. You say its not an attack but quite honestly it feels like it.

it's not an attack any more than anything in the debate and discuss is. what it is, is a good hard look at an old book that still manages to constitute a core part of a massive amount of western people's belief structure.

if anything, christians should be ready, willing, and able to defend their faith in this book.

to become angry at an outsider for questioning the validity of your belief system actually defeats one of the main callings jesus christ set forth: to preach the gospel.

we're questioning the bible b/c we don't understand how it can be considered a viable source of information much less a center stronghold for an entire system of ethics and morality. with that, we have given you an opening to show us why it is so valuable to you and reach out-- anger will not bring anyone closer to you or your beliefs. i guarentee it.

I have always wondered these same questions.

And the first question, honestly being someone who doesn't believe in the validity of the bible, the story just got re-written. Like an edit maybe? The only differences I see are that in the first story, man and women are created equally, and in the second, women are created from man, then being under man, and for man. So maybe it had something to do with the changing of so many stories from the bible. Like when they made Mary Magdelene a prostitute (which historically she wasn't a prostitute, rather of royal blood), or many other times where women are belittled. The bible got re-written many times of the course of history. Perhaps this is just an example of one of those times.

And the second question, to make that story work, you would have to assume that Adam and Eve are simply a metaphor for all the humans that God created that day. I am not sure, as I have not read it in many years, if it ever specifically states how many people were on the planet. I could be wrong. Maybe God didn't stop there, maybe he continued creating people, but Adam and Eve were the first. And I have also heard that Adam and Eve continued having children after Cain and Abel. I know they had one other son named Seth, but I was always under the impression that Cain married his sister. (which leaves another contradiction since insest is also wrong in the bible)

So I am not sure if there really are suitable, or logical answers to these questions. The best I can come up with is that when you re-write a book that many times, and when you weave such an elaborate story, there are bound to be mistakes made. (that last comment was not made to offend, that is just how I see it)